And Another Thing…

Except that… this issue isn’t really about ‘British Jobs for British workers at all’.

7 companies tendered for the contract in question.

5 of them were British.

1 won, and happened to be Italian, and—most crucially—already has a workforce.

The notion that a company winning an outsourcing contract should be legally obligated to take on new local staff in favour of its existing employees is ludicrous.

Every economic study to date on the subject has shown that increased protectionism in times of economic strife (such as these) only does harm to the recovery. Britain isn’t self-sufficient, hasn’t been for decades—if not hundreds of years—and isn’t likely to be again in the future. We need open borders to survive, in economic terms, and the demands of the strikers will do nothing to aid this.

No need to whisper Tom – British jobs for British workers! … and Europe can take a back seat for a while.

As for Lord Mandelson protesteth too much at “Go Buy British” and protectionalism, Dr Blockbuster advises that we are still in a spin over that miraculous enoblement. Third time lucky is that the hope? :smiles:

Not another of Gordon’s untruths?

As usual, he is costing you votes: The Nation Speaks – Part I

“I have absolutely no problem with stating that I would, given a chance, always want to discriminate in favour of British workers and British manufacturers”

More of the usual undeliverable rhetoric we’ve all come to expect from a Labour politician.

Gordon Brown also promised:
3 million new houses to be built in 10 years
500,000 new Britsih jobs.
No return to boom and bust

All at the 2007 TUC conference.

At least no-one can accuse of being inconsistent.

That’s very “courageous” of you, Tom (As Sir Humphrey would say).

I was impressed by Pat McFadden’s piece on Newsnight. He seems like a decent cove, unlike the Newsnight editors who fielded three Labour pundits and nobody from the other parties.

….

The problem with Mr Brown is that he never says what he means. Over the EC treaty, we were promised a vote, but then we were told it was not that kind of treaty.

He told us he was passionate about lifting children out of poverty. It hasn’t happened.

He told us he had ended boom and bust. Yeah.

He promised British jobs for British workers, but we have all somehow misinterpreted this all along.

(Let’s ignore what his predecessor’s wife may or may not have said about lies)

When will the time come, Mr Speaker, when we can correctly interpret anything the Prime Minister says?

It seems that the main problem with “dog whistles” is that it attracts a bunch of dogs who want to see why you’re whistling.

When it turns out that there’s no meat these dogs typically turn on the idiot with the whistle.

You have got to be on the wind up Tom? Gordon didn’t mean that British workers could expect to compete at all, he meant exactly what he said, “British Jobs For British Workers”.

The problem is that it is an unenforcable promise, and it was therefore is a cock up on his part to make such a statement without first ensuring that it could be enforced.

It has very little to do with Europe really though. I don’t understand this constant European focus for all the ills of Britain? As an example, if I want to build a warehouse I could get two quotes. One from a British company that wants say £500k, and one from a Spanish company that wants £250k. I am therefore going to take the obvious route and use the Spanish company.

So, to “fix this”, so that “British Jobs For British Workers” applies, you could prevent people in this country from entering into contracts with overseas companies for services rendered in the UK? Only that would cause many many unintended problems and seriously affect the economy. So why do you do? In short, I can’t see how there is nothing you can do. Not a thing.

“raised eyebrows”?

Does Alistair take his off and wave them? The truth,now.

It’s not as if any British workers are employed anywhere outside Britain is it?

At least one proverbial jaw hit the proverbial floor in the body of the BIC hall shortly after that phrase was delivered. If we asked him very nicely do you think the new Dr Who would take his Tardis back to 2007 and arrange for that disastrous party conference to be cancelled?

Tom it will only get worse. we have been taken into the EU on a con. We have never been asked if this is what we wanted. Your party promised a referendun and you went back on your word ( not difficult for Labour).
We need a referendum so we can sort this out once and for all. We need the will of the people to decide. John Major should have done it and so should you.

British jobs for British workers?

Dogwhistle phrases for cheap applause. Only this time, the dog whistle has attracted a 200lb Rottweiler with a penchant for human flesh. Nice one Gordon! Now, about that ‘boom and bust’ you claimed to have abolished before going on to save the world universe…?

From my specialist perspective, you would not get French, German or any other mainland European railways issuing OJEU Notices for new trains and then encouraging bids from Korea and China as your former chums are doing. In France buying from Germany and vice-versa is a bit brave.

As a rule of thumb European procurement rules force Governments to do only what they want to do in the first place – and your former chums have the regrettable British habit, as Orwell noted, of national self loathing. If a Minsier asked his civil servants how can I buy something without going through the full Euro procurement schtick they would come up with an answer. But no one never asks.

Oddly, it never seems to dawn on civil servants, or railway managers for that matter, that the taxes which pay their salaries or subsidise their industry come from people working in factories in Britain not Korea or China or Japan. It is, however much more fun going on factory visits to those countries.

Is their a difference between enlightened self interest and protectionism?

I’ve only one minor question.

Are the Italians being paid the same as the going rate for the jobs in the UK? Having worked for an Italian company I suspect that they are.

If they aren’t then they should be, using cheap foreign labour to undercut wages is wrong, commonly done but wrong.
Losing a contract to equally (or more) skillful or experienced others is a fact of life. No different from if your company loses to another company in your home country.

Now I’m biased, I work in a foreign country and have to compete with lower cost labour all the time. But it can be done and I don’t have to cut my rate.

It is one of the big problems with globalisation and does need to be addressed.
Even more worrying is that this present set of fools who form the goverment have allowed more non-EU workers in, these workers do work for less and undercut the native workers.
May be good for big international companies and the future directorships and backhanders for ministers, not very good for those the goverment is paid to serve (yes serve Tom).

As for what your dear leader meant. He meant what he said, if he didn’t mean it he is either a liar, a buffoon or both.

Captain Deltic: “If a Minsier asked his civil servants how can I buy something without going through the full Euro procurement schtick they would come up with an answer. But no one never asks.”

Untrue. I did ask.

I wonder if the proportion of British people who back the protestors is approaching 80%. Labour seem to use that figure as a trigger to steamroller through their policies (88% pro referendum, 80% against ID cards, 80% against road pricing). How long you can continue to do exactly the opposite of what 80% of the population wants remains to be seen.

@ Simon

About fifteen months…

Serves Brown right for giving legitimacy to a BNP slogan.

Boy they must be rubbing their hands with glee at the mess Brown has made!

Well, that’s interesting, Tom, and to your considerable created.

Now drop the other boot.

My express many yawns at the sentiment. “British jobs for foreign workers who don’t have access to a world-class welfare system,” is what I say.

Typical confusion that stems from the fusion of two disgusting habits: naked capitalism and nationalism.

Some time ago, Dizzy pointed out that:

“Between 2003 and 2005 EDF Energy, 70% owned by the French state, donated a total of £43000 to the Conservatives and Labour. £31000 and £12000 respectively”

Dizzy also points out that EDF employ Gordon Brown’s brother.

http://dizzythinks.net/2008/01/silence-on-andrew-brown-explained.html

EDF, who are taking over swathes of UK’s nuclear power industry, are linked to Total:

“Electricité de France (EDF) and Total today increased their respective stakes in Total Energie, a company specialising in photovoltaic solar energy, to 50% each with the acquisition of the 20% interest held by the founders and management of the company. Total Energie will now be known as TENESOL”

My guess is that there will be a huge backlash against Brown and Mandelson for telling working people in UK, fighting for their jobs against the might of these corporate giants, to effectively get on their bikes. Equally, I think there will be a backlash against William Hague for his mealy mouthed attack on these workers.

“Of course we recognise that people, British people, are worried about jobs being taken by workers from other countries. And yes, those workers from other countries are foreigners. But the point is that I am working from the moment I wake up in the morning to ensure that hard working British families are protected from the global downturn which started in America and which is all the fault of greedy bankers who until just last week were my best friends.

Going on strike and protesting about foreign workers, well, I say to you that that’s not the right thing to do and it’s not defensible. What we’ve set up is a process to deal with the questions that people have been asking about what has happened in this particular instance, and to whitewash any little problems.

When I talked about British Jobs for British Workers, I was not just stealing a policy from the BNP, or trying to get a favourable headline, I was taking about giving people in Britain the skills, so that they have the ability to get jobs which were at present going to people from abroad and actually encouraging people to take up the courses and the education and learning that is necessary for British workers to be far more skilled for the future. This education and training is on top of all my investment in schools and the ever rising and improving examination results, where now every school leaver has 147 GCSE’s at A* or better. Luckily I have abolished Boom and Bust so that Britain is uniquely well placed to attract a lot of immigrants keen to get the benefits of living here. And the tax credits as well.”

MO: “Every economic study to date on the subject has shown that increased protectionism in times of economic strife (such as these) only does harm to the recovery…”

This isn’t true. In actual fact, there are many examples of openly protectionist policies that work in terms of protecting jobs, certain sectors, and whole industries: the CAP, for example, which you can criticize on a number of levels, has succeeded in protecting European farmers from the ravages of the free market (this is precisely what it was designed to do and the reason the US government and others hate it is because it works).

Just about every first world government intervenes economically to protect and promote certain domestic interests — they do this in times of strife and prosperity, and it works. When a third world country tries it they usually get a nasty letter / serious threat from the IMF or someone, but that’s another story.

The protests by British workers that are going on just now are obviously a consequence of a few factors like the unfolding recession.

That said, there is a case for saying British workers are discriminated against within the EU, albeit inadvertantly, in that the average British worker can’t speak foreign languages. A much higher proportion of people living on the continent can speak more than one language and that opens up opportunities for them abroad.

“Personally, while acknowledging the hard fact of European law when it comes to employment practice, I have absolutely no problem with stating that I would, given a chance, always want to discriminate in favour of British workers”.

But the ‘hard fact’ is that it is illegal to discriminate in favour of British workers.

Therefore the possibility of doing so does not arise – any attempt do so would be ruled unlawful.

Once again your hand wringing is nothing more than posturing – and you know it.

Do you really think that those who are unemployed or who fear that they might be are going to be impressed.

If so, think again.

Nobody has mentioned the fact that 3 million jobs have been created in the last ten years under New Improved Labour.(My spelling has improved dramatically I feel)

Problem is, nine out of ten of those jobs went to non British nationals. (Source:Frank Field, MP)

Here’s an interesting thing. Gordon Brown first coined the phrase in June 2007 before he became Prime Minister, speaking to the GMB conference, but then it was “It is time to train British workers for the British jobs that will be available over the coming few years” – note British workers for British jobs, in that order.

The media then consistently misquoted it as “British jobs for British workers”, and it was in that form that Brown felt compelled to include it in the conference speech. In other words, Gordon Brown misquoted himself out of context.

Thanks, David. Are we supposed to be reassured by your explanation that Gordon is an idiot? *rolls eyes*

until recently, the availability of foreign workers was presented by government ministers as a significant benefit to the british economy – the lower pay rates accepted by foreign workers for comparable jobs tending to keep pay rates, and hence inflation, down.

now we are being told that foreign workers (at least at this site) are in receipt of pay and conditions similiar to those a british worker would expect.

i would like sight of a foreign worker’s contract of employment as confirmation but suspect this will be a long time coming.

incidently are the foreign workers paying uk tax, n.i., etc.? are they paying ‘rent’ or are they liable for tax on the value of the accomodation etc being provided?

Perhaps we have all misinterpreted everything GB has said and hes been right all along. Yeah right

It’s funny really train for a new job, Labour have put in place new training so that everyone can get a job, OK I’m disabled so come down low on Browns list, but so far I’ve asked to be placed onto a new training regime to be told by every dam training provider unless you can pay your self, you’ve had it.

When ever I ask the Job center about retraining, mind you I’m already a fully qualified electrician, I’m told funding is short we are taking the young only, for god sake I was only 39.

So where is this re training when can we expect it to start.

Unbelievably stupid statement. It’s sweet, however, that all sorts of Labour people are now explaining to us (we’re thick, you see) that that wasn’t what he really meant.

It was an appalling piece of populist flag-waving, of the lowest sort. So funny it has backfired on him

David Boothroyd. Thanks – I rest may case re re-interpretation by Labourites after the fact. Fantastic. You must think the rest of us very, very stupid, David, to come out with such utter claptrap.

It was what it appeared to be; a nasty slice of populist demagoguery.

While we are at it – can anyone explain to me how membership of the EU has benefited me?

I can see how it benefits BIG business. I can see how it has provided the most incredible gravy train for a lot of people who do ….. what?

But little me? I would seem to be on of those who is here to help out big business and kowtow to laws I didn’t even know we had, and which we – in the UK – did not agree to; but how has it benefited me?

Thanks in advance

ps. I voted for the EU back in the 70s. We were told it would be a free trade bloc. Somewhat economical with the actualité, one would have to say.

Attn Sergeant Plodder

Dr Blockbuster also voted us into the EU way back before the war .. The Crimean. BUT re “While we are at it – can anyone explain to me how membership of the EU has benefited me? Yesch, Yesch, I can explain … it hasn’t.
Unfortunately you, me and a few others made a voting mischtake. Oui, oui, c’est vrai!

alla prossima,

Dr Blockbuster
Networks & Forums guru

PS Anyway, I’m now running a Go Buy British campaign :smiles: