SHORTLY after the formation of the Scottish Parliament, I attended a seminar in Edinburgh that was examining the role of the different parties at Holyrood. At one point, a member of the audience asked: “Why do we need partries at all? Why can’t we just have 129 independent MSPs working for their constituents, not their parties?”
Most politicos present sighed at the gentleman’s naivete. Yet it’s an appeal that’s heard all too often, and was heard on this site earlier today. Politicians and others who consider themselves more politically sophisticated than the average member of the general public would do well not to sneer at such suggestions (as I did at the time, I have to confess); the disconnect between electors and elected has never been greater. It is recoverable, but not if we refuse to engage and meet these concerns head on.
Being an “independent” MP is only superficially attractive. Yes, you’re not answerable to party whips, and you can attack, or support, any policy you wish publicly. But if you had 646 independent MPs in the House, and they were suddenly invited to take a position on any given subject, particularly a controversial one, they would line up for or against. And before you knew it – hey, presto! A party system.
And even if that didn’t happen, general elections are not about electing 646 individual MPs to the legislature: they’re about electing a government on a programme laid out in that party’s manifesto. And once elected, those much-maligned whips have the job of making sure enough MPs vote in the right way to enable the executive to govern.
I’ll make another confession: I have not, on every occasion, voted according to my own best judgment. It so happens that on the vast majority of occasions I happen to have agreed with my party and my government on whether a piece of legislation deserves to be supported or not. But there have been a handful of cases when I would rather not have voted a particular way, but did so for the sake of the government and my party (fortunately, so far, I’ve never had to vote for something which I fundamentally opposed in principle, though I don’t rule out that happening one day).
And I did so, not because I would ever put my party above my constituents – if you believe your party’s policies are at odds with your constituents’ best interests then you’re in the wrong party and you’d better do something about it sharpish – but because I believe parties can only govern if their MPs are disciplined. And yes, that often means compromise – but compromise in order to allow other, important things to happen, things that you hope and expect will benefit your and every other MPs’ constituents.
Because politics is a messy business. At its best it can be uplifting and inspiring; at its worst, seedy and self-serving. Most of us find a respectable middle way that allows us to get on with the job and, ultimately, to do good, which is the main motivation for any of us, of all parties and none, to be here at all.
Unfortunately, we can’t all be Mr Smith going to Washington or Westminster. But there is still enough good in the party system to allow any dedicated MP to avoid cynicism and defeatism.
Whatever weaknesses our existing political apparatus has, the party system of itself is not one of them.
UPDATE: Bloody typical! I spend ages rambling on and on and not really getting anywhere, and meanwhile, Hopi Sen writes something on the same general subject but in a much wittier and articulate way. Dammit.
























Tuesday 10 February 2009 at 9:48 pm
I’ve got a post saying a lot of this in the pipeline – so you’ve annoyingly beat me to the punch Tom
I’ve found one quote that Bernard Crick used to use in this argument that you’ll like though….
http://blog.localdemocracy.org.uk/2009/02/10/do-we-need-political-parties-a-prelude/
Tuesday 10 February 2009 at 10:27 pm
I think your logic is flawed, Tom.
“But if you had 646 independent MPs in the House, and they were suddenly invited to take a position on any given subject, particularly a controversial one, they would line up for or against. And before you knew it – hey, presto! A party system.”
Because… no, that’s not a party system. If 646 MPs line up one way or another (or abstaining) on *one* issue, there’s nothing to say that they’d line up the same way on another issue (unlike under a party system, where it’s often a given, although less-so with backbenchers except with major issues).
“your party’s policies are at odds with your constituents’ best interests then you’re in the wrong party and you’d better do something about it sharpish”
“general elections are not about electing 646 individual MPs to the legislature: they’re about electing a government on a programme laid out in that party’s manifesto.”
That’s the convention, but it’s, quite frankly, wrong. Why bother having individual MPs at all, on that basis? Why not just have a small party consisting of solely of ministers and government is given to whichever one gets the most votes across the whole country?
The problem is that you can’t just kick out your MP. If the party your MP belongs to changes course, or reveals themselves to be inclined to behaving in a somewhat different manner to the general expectation, you—as a constituent—are a bit shafted until the next election, because the reasonable expectation is that the MP will vote in line with the party in the majority of cases (and, of course, we have websites which tell us whether they have a habit of doing that or not—and if they don’t, we didn’t really elect them on the basis of the Government their party would form, did we?)
I’ve lost count of the number of letters to MPs and responses which have been published where a constituent has urged an MP to vote on the basis of facts and logic rather than along the party lines, and the response has been little more than a copy & paste of the current party policy document with the preface “I feel that…” tacked onto the beginning. I’m not saying you do this (I’ve never written to you, for a start!), but enough MPs do when it comes to “big” issues that the party views as important that it’s a big problem.
Though frankly, the biggest problem of all is the fact that said MPs are largely far more cynical towards their constituents than they are towards the waffle put about by the party (which tends to be swallowed as though it were written on stone tablets and handed down at Mount Sinai). About the only exception to this appears to be the Daily Mail, which has some sort of magical effect on policy (I can only speculate that the majority of its sales are made in and around
Westminster). It’s downright maddening (and more than a little disturbing) when crackpot legislation is proposed which has holes so big you could drive a bus through them, the whips have a field day, and the MPs all vote in accordance with the party line, because it’s terribly important that you don’t do *nothing*. Meanwhile, all of the constituents who wrote to their MPs to urge them not to vote in favour are fobbed off as though they were the opposition leader himself.
It’s this very issue behind the poor responses to any “how much do you think Labour listens to the people?” questions thrown up by pollsters. You’re not alone, though. The Tories were exactly the same a decade and a bit ago, and I’d not be in the slightest bit surprised if the level of response to this hasn’t changed in the last hundred years or so, save for the odd blip immediately after an election. But then, politics hasn’t really changed much in that time, either.
Tuesday 10 February 2009 at 10:36 pm
I find it intriguing that Labour seems to be hell-bent on enacting policies that the majority of people disagree with (ID cards, Lisbon Treaty, etc). Precisely what is the point of an elected government if their main actions are those that are opposed by the majority of those voted?
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Answered my own question, methinks. New government, please.
Tuesday 10 February 2009 at 10:40 pm
You are right of course. The current make up of the UK’s political system lends itself entirelly to the political party system – which is why I said that Independent MP’s have about as much chance as a snowball in hell.
Isn’t that sad though? That the people elected to office in this country are never selected on merit, or their own personal aims and objectives, or their own desire to genuinly help others – just the logo by the side of their name, and whether they have “the right logo” for the area they are in, or whether in the case of a marginal constituency they belong to the party that’s currently the most popular?
Take me for instance. I’m 25, with a degree in Economics, a postgraduate qualification in Law, my professional legal qualifications, and i’ve been interested in politics since my early teens (yes, I really was that sad). I want to be an MP because I have a genuine desire to help people, and truly believe I would work harder at that aim than most currently in Westminster. I would also try and impliment a type of “open politics” with people, much as you have done with your blog and twitter, but going further, by giving people the chance to openly discuss what EDM’s I should sign and why, how I should vote on key issues and why etc…
I’m the first to admit that i’m an idealist, but not at the expense of pragmatism (such as supporting the pursuit of an ideal that actually damages people along the way), and also recognise that the latter part of the above would be impossible if I was anything other than an independant MP.
However, it’s all moot because as an independant I would do very very well not to lose my deposit, let alone get remotely near the finish line. In addition, no political party would put me forward as a candidate in a million years because i’m a)too young for them at 25 and b)there are others, older, far ahead of me in the queue who have been councellors for years, or just strong active supporters for years etc…
Oh well, I guess i’ll just have to console myself with badgering you with my opinions a bit longer Tom. Any objection to me sticking around and continuing to do so? ;o)
Tuesday 10 February 2009 at 10:43 pm
You’re completely forgetting the other (and some would argue main) point about parties – they are a way for people to organise. Together we’re stronger than we are apart. Christ, it says so on the back of the membership card we both hold!
I’m a left-wing Socialist. But I joined the Labour Party because I truly believe that it’s better to be organising with people who think roughly like me than to stand on the outside looking in.
At the end of the day, only the masses, organised in some way, are ever going to change anything. And THAT is the best argument for political parties.
Tuesday 10 February 2009 at 10:44 pm
I love these commentbox trolls who pop up, make a snarky comment and then declare themselves right. Richard: Go and find a basic policical science text book. There should be a chapter entitled ‘Representative Democracy’ or something like that. Then come back and retract that last comment.
Oh – the ‘methinks’ really gives it away…
http://ifyoulikeitsomuchwhydontyougolivethere.com/2009/02/10/wherefore-verily-whence-methinks-thusly/
Tuesday 10 February 2009 at 10:47 pm
John – please don’t be discouraged, and please don’t assume that, as you say, “the people elected to office in this country are never selected on merit”.
I’m not saying that everyone in the Commons is of the highest possible intellect (I’m certainly not), but in most parties, the selection process is pretty demanding, and you have to be pretty impressive (in most cases), to be selected.
Tuesday 10 February 2009 at 11:10 pm
@ Paulie
I was clearly away the day they taught us about “representative democracy” when I was taking my degree in politics
I presume you’re trying to suggest that because the government is not directly accountable to the people by referenda that we’re obliged to accept their representation of us by proxy.
That’s true, but suffice to say that any government that consistently ignores the collective will of the people won’t be in power for long. The key word in the phrase is ‘representative’.
Tuesday 10 February 2009 at 11:21 pm
Dont care
Tuesday 10 February 2009 at 11:42 pm
Cheers for the encouragement Tom! I didn’t mean to suggest that the selection processes aren’t on merit though, that would be insulting to every candidate that got through, and I don’t mean to come across like that at all.
I meant it from the electorate’s point of view, as in they look at the ballot sheet in front of them and they aren’t looking to see who they think would work the hardest for them, or who has the best grasp of the issues that matter to them etc…, they are simply looking for party logo’s. So you could have Carol Vorderman’s secret twin sister with an equally impressive IQ, a deep understanding of the issues, and a real desire to “go further” and help, yet if she has “independent” or “the wrong logo for the area” by her name she’s both invisible and irrelevent.
The selection process was meant to be a separate point towards the end. I didn’t mean to suggest that the selection process didn’t select from those that got to that stage on merit, just that there is a queue to even get near the selection process that seemingly procludes a 25 year old MP from ever being a possibility.
I guess it’s things like that that make me a bit despondent. Despite my genuine desire to help others, and my belief that I would work harder at that aim than most currently at Westminister, it will take years and years before I or others like me can get to the stage where we can even get the chance to be put forward so that we can put our enthusiasm and our desire to help into practice.
So in that respect, despite the seemingly “open democracy” we have in this country (there is nothing stopping me standing as an independent after all), in practice there appears to be a “glass ceiling” that prevents idealist 25 year olds from gracing the green benches of the Commons?
Perhaps that’s a good thing however? ;o)
Wednesday 11 February 2009 at 12:06 am
I wonder if the party system will make much difference soon anyway. All three main parties seem hellbent on handing over power to the EU and making themselves pretty well irrelevant into the bargain. This against the will of the people if all the polls are to be beleived. It’s rather like a conspiracy amongst the politicians against the electorate and our votes have become more or less meaningless. It’s not surprising that the far right are on the rise.
Wednesday 11 February 2009 at 8:42 am
Richard,
Your argument that a government shouldn’t “enact policies that the majority of people disagree with (ID cards, Lisbon Treaty, etc)” would have been laughed at by a half-decent politics lecturer (did you go to one of those modern unis where you get a degree for colouring in?)
Wednesday 11 February 2009 at 9:58 am
Can I just point out that there is absolutely nothing to stop independents standing for election. Sometimes they even get elected. But mostly they don’t because the voters prefer to vote on the basis of party.
Wednesday 11 February 2009 at 11:28 am
I agree Tom, the problem with our political system is not the party system, it is the lack of separation of powers between executive and legislature.
As ministers (and backbenchers with ambition) are entirely dependent on the Prime Minister’s favour, it means that the party whips have far more clout over them in their other role as MPs than in say the House of Representatives. Therefore they are less independent and more likely to vote party over consitituency than their counterparts over the pond.
Wednesday 11 February 2009 at 12:41 pm
@ Paulie.
The point that I’m trying to make (repeatedly) is that any government that persistently goes against the will of the people is unlikely to stay in power for very long.
I’m not saying that governments can’t take unpopular decisions but that they should generally try to avoid doing so.
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There’s another debate to be had about whether Labour should ethically be able to continue in government when their manifesto is so wildly outdated by events and where they have no mandate to undertake the actions that they’re taking on our behalf.
Wednesday 11 February 2009 at 12:45 pm
You have missed a crucial point. There are far too many MPs. If we had, say, 100 well paid independent MPs instead of 646 party hacks we would have a much better system.
Wednesday 11 February 2009 at 2:47 pm
To those who are seriously advocating Independant MP’s, how many of you have actually voted for one, or intend to vote for one at the next general election?
I’m asking because despite the vocal support Independants are receiving here, they pretty much always lose their deposit. So where are you, and people like you come election time? Either you’re not representitive of the public at large, and you all do vote for independants, or you’re not practicing what you preach…..
Wednesday 11 February 2009 at 3:17 pm
@John:
that would kind of depend on the independent’s platform, surely—that’s rather the point?
(and yes, it’s entirely likely that those who have thought about it enough and drawn the conclusion that independents as the default would be preferable are in the minority).
Wednesday 11 February 2009 at 4:19 pm
Richard.
You seem to be arguing that governments should stand down if they are unpopular in mid-term. Many governments are unpopular in mid-term yet still have a chance of winning the subsequent election (Mrs T in 1981 and 1989, John Major in 1991) and sometimes governments call an election , and get a nasty surprise (Labour in 1970).
You seem to be very subjective here. You don’t like *this* government and you want it to stand down.
You may think that there is a debate to be had about whether governments should stand down when circumstances around them change and they have to make decisions that they didn’t give advance notice of on polling day, but it’d be a tedious debate that your university lecturers (did you *really* study politics?) would get a bit impatient with. They’d say things like ‘don’t they teach them *anything* in schools any more?’
And you say that you understand about representative government, and then suggest that elected governments have ‘mandates’ for particular actions.
They don’t. Parliament’s only mandate is to bring it’s distributed moral wisdom to bear on the drafting of legislation and face the consequences at the subsequent election.
Wednesday 11 February 2009 at 5:16 pm
One or two independents wouldn’t make the slightest difference. Only a complete change in the system would improve the situation. The party hacks have everything tied up from the allocation of free party political broadcasts to the partisan donations by unions and business to the parties. Nobody will ever convince me that they donate out of the goodness of their hearts. They expect, and get, a return. Then there is the ever expanding Government payroll vote……
The irony is that we boast of being the cradle of democracy and criticise other countries for being undemocratic.
Wednesday 11 February 2009 at 8:40 pm
@ Paul Evans
I think we’ve drifted off my original point which was that I was surprised that Labour are doing so many unpopular things when you’d think that it would be in their best interests to do popular things.
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Having said that I’ll try to defend the other point which is that the principle of government is surely to propose a course of action as well as a political philosophy. When circumstances change so drastically as to make a mockery of almost every pledge made, and when the opposition is proposing a diametrically alternate course of action then surely it’s only right and proper for that party to call an election and to seek public approval for their actions.
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If their proposed course and philosophy are self-evidently the best way then the country will vote for them. If not, then not.
Wednesday 11 February 2009 at 8:47 pm
Oh, and yes, I did actually study Politics (with a minor in War Studies) from one of the better universities, thanks for asking.
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Basically if you need someone to make fun of Gordon Brown and secretly plot the overthrow of Chile, I’m your man.
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