THE little known campaigning group, Fight For The Right To Take Pictures Of Police Officers (FFTRTTPOPO), will be holding its regular monthly meeting this week.
However, the planned presentation, entitled “Digital or 35mm? Making the most of your all-night vigil outside New Scotland Yard”, has now been shifted to item 2 on the agenda, making way for a new item which will undoubtedly feature the term “police state”…
Many years ago, as a student, I made the mistake, in the heat of an argument, of describing Thatcher’s Britain during the miners’ strike as a “police state”. A girl who was present at the time, and who hailed from a South American regime whose citizens knew something about the reality of a police state, snorted derisively before setting me straight. I was suitably chastened.
Since then I’ve often repeated her very sound reasoning that describing democratic countries like the UK as a police state isn’t just inaccurate – it diminishes the plight of those in other countries actually living in fear of arbitrary arrest and prison without due process.
Today’s Times editorial makes the same point well, so I’ve reproduced it in its entirety:
Anyone who has ever lived in a genuine police state will know that it is a poor description of Britain. The use of the term by Stella Rimington, the former head of MI5, both trivialises the stifling lack of freedom in some nondemocratic nations and misstates the argument about civil liberties in this country (see page 14).
There are, indeed, serious issues of civil liberties on which, too often, the Government has been on the wrong side. The demand to hold terror suspects for 42 days was made with only the most feeble attempt to supply a case. Officials have been cavalier with the use of data and antiterrorism legislation has been used to impound the assets of Icelandic banks. Incidents of this sort undermine the confidence of the public in the quest to combat terrorism.
There are also legitimate reasons for, respectively, not permitting the use of intercept evidence, for not wishing to compile a DNA database or for derogating the extensive use of CCTV in public places. But these issues need to be taken on their merits. The compilation of DNA data needs to be weighed against the crimes solved as a result, the surveillance weighed against the increasing difficulty of being a terrorist in Britain.
It is true that a respect for a liberal heritage is precisely what separates democracy from tyranny. To undermine liberty in the name of protecting a way of life is a contradiction in terms. But that does not mean that the step from the State protecting the citizen to the State protecting itself is a short one. In a noisy polity characterised by a functioning Parliament, a free press and an independent judiciary, liberty is nothing like as fragile as that.














Wednesday 18 February 2009 at 12:19 pm
Two words come to mind. Damian. Green.
Wednesday 18 February 2009 at 12:26 pm
There are degrees of anything, so to say we aren’t a police state because when compared with the Khmer Rouge we look like a beacon of democracy and freedom, is a very selective argument.
In this country, if you point to me and shout “Terrorist”, if the police want to, they can lock me up for 28 days while they work out whether I am or not. So I get 28 days in jail when I have been charged with nothing, and convicted of nothing. Yeah, sounds like a free society to me too.
It’s ok though. We were told that innocents wouldn’t be caught up in anti-terror legislation. Only the evil terrorists who wanted to kill us all had anything to fear. So here you go, here’s an innocent person not being caught up in it: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/aug/18/terrorism.civilliberties
Wednesday 18 February 2009 at 12:30 pm
How many liberties will be cut before we will be able to call it Police State?
How many people died to grant us the rights that are now being removed one by one? The ability to revoke the right to take photos of Policemen CAN limit the freedom of press. What’s next?
We should not compare with those countries who suffers, we should try to be taken as Example.
Lead By Example!
Wednesday 18 February 2009 at 12:32 pm
I think the major concern is the attitude of Labour towards internal security (e.g. that practically any reduction of libert is justified by the need to preserve order).
Wednesday 18 February 2009 at 12:32 pm
Police state, maybe not… But surely this is still not a good thing?
Wednesday 18 February 2009 at 12:33 pm
No, John, we were not told that “innocents would not be caught up in anti-terror legislation”. That is a promise that no-one could keep. After all, innocents are occasionally caught up in criminal investigations of the non-terrorist variety.
What we were promised – by the civil liberties lobby – was that many, many innocents would be arrested and held for the maximum amount of time. That was never going to happen, and it hasn’t.
Wednesday 18 February 2009 at 12:34 pm
The fact is, terrorism can be anything the government wants it to be. It will be interesting to see if any foreign tourists find themselves banged up for photographing a British policeman. Or does this law only apply to British citizens? We may not be South America, but like many others I fear we are on a slippery slope.
Wednesday 18 February 2009 at 12:35 pm
I think the main issue is that the current government are not providing a buffer between the wants of the police and protecting the public’s liberties.
While we may not be living in a police state surely one of starting points of the development of a police state is where the government simply enact all legislation the police want.
Wednesday 18 February 2009 at 12:44 pm
Labour has intruded into our lives more than any other government
Wednesday 18 February 2009 at 12:52 pm
Tom, how would you deal with the widespread abuse of anti terror legislation? Where photographers with a press card are stopped and searched for taking pictures of a taxi queue. Where someone taking pictures at London Bridge Station is told that he ‘doesn’t fit the profile but you can’t be too careful’. Where badly trained community support officers routinely believe they have the right to instruct people not to photograph, or to delete images?
The example I’ve given in the first comment is the most public example of an abuse of police power.
Why, for example do we regularly see homeless people surrounded by ten or twelve police officers? Does it really take that kind of resource and intimidation? Or are they just bullying because they can.
In my opinion, we lost the plot when we started allowing public agencies to openly threaten the public and now we see it every day – from Police forces to television licensing, from the DVLA to South West Trains. Every day law abiding citizens are told that the computer knows who we are, that we must buy a ticket before we get on a train (even though we’ve been through the ticket barrier). That our car will be crushed.
All the while we’re being constantly surveyed, and now you want a database of our travel arrangements, our companions, our emails, telephone calls, web urls. The state already routinely registers the DNA of anyone who is arrested, even if they are later released without charge.
It is ludicrous to suggest that because the actions your Government has taken are under the cloak of democracy and ‘choice’ that this makes the UK better than the countries you mention. It is democracy that leads us to expect a higher standard.
PS: the British Journal of Photography had an enquiry from a Russian news team about the new law. Surely when the Russians think our laws are too restrictive, that’s the place to call a halt?
Wednesday 18 February 2009 at 1:01 pm
A better man than you, Winston Churchill, said “the price of freedom is eternal vigilance”.
We are approaching far too rapidly, a police state. When we get there, it will be of no use people like you saying, OK go ahead, you can now legitimately call this country a police state, because by then there will be nothing to do about it.
Your colleagues in New Labour tried to get the law changed to lock people up without charge for forty two days. That could have been easily applied to Damien Green MP who was arrested by the anti-terrorism plod for receiving leaks, something which Gordon Brown boasted of when he was in opposition.
Wake up and smell the beverage of your choice.
Wednesday 18 February 2009 at 1:09 pm
Surely when the ex-leader of MI5 warns about civil liberty problems we should sit up and take notice rather than get involved in pathetic little debates on semantics.
It’s this sort of stuff that is making the political class hated in this country.
Wednesday 18 February 2009 at 1:13 pm
Mr. Harris,
While I applaud your call for calm and perspective (and cannot help but agree that there are many worse places to live in the world, by orders of magnitude, when it comes to Civil Liberties), I think that there is a place for the kind of hyperbole that some people are choosing to employ with regard to some of the recent legislation in the UK.
A very large proportion of the people living in the UK have no idea that our un-written constitution has been eroded more in the last three to four years (since 07/07/2005 specifically) than in the decades that came before, and that the current government’s approach and attitude to security is one of PR and control, rather than vigilance and accountablility. To explain, limiting the Civil Liberties of the Subjects of the United Kingdom (of the British Isles and Northern Ireland) in a stated attempt to limit the activities of terrorists is essentially meaningless. Terrorists do not care if it becomes illegal to photograph Police Officers – if they need to do that for some reason, they will take whatever steps are required to remain either covert or uncaptured and do it anyway. Creating laws that restrict day to day activities will in no way dissuade people who do not respect the rule of law. It’s like the ludicrous argument that tighter gun control reduces gun crime, when it is fairly clear that it does no such thing. Gun Control reduces, in fact mostly eliminates, gunplay in domestic and coincidental disputes, where if the people involved were in possession of a legally held firearm they may in a moment of madness turn to it as a weapon. It in no way stops criminals from illegally obtaining and using firearms to carry out their “business”, after all they are already happy to transgress, and if they run the risk of confronting rivals or treacherous associates who will be armed… You can perhaps see my point.
Anyway, limiting the activities of photographers, a growing and vociferous demographic, by making it illegal to photograph a Police Officer while he or she is on duty is not only fairly pointless, but it is (in our land of laws that work on a basis of precedent) the tip of the iceberg with regard to limiting speech, expression and reporting. Employing hyperbole and referring to the UK as a “Police State” in response to such legislative nonesense may be offensive to those in real peril from genuinely corrupt regimes, and it may very well be a gross exaggeration, but if it makes people notice and care about the dangers inherent in the erosion of their civil liberties, in a country where in truth those liberties are (at their core) privileges extended to Subjects of the Crown rather than guaranteed to Citizens of the State, then I for one feel that such hyperbole may well be adequately justified.
Too many of us sit quietly, nodding sagely that those who live lawful ives have nothing to fear, but the truth is that it is a thousand times easier to give away Civil Liberties than it is to get them back.
Wednesday 18 February 2009 at 1:18 pm
@Tom Harris
What we were promised – by the civil liberties lobby – was that many, many innocents would be arrested and held for the maximum amount of time. That was never going to happen, and it hasn’t.
Fair point. The civil liberties lobby do go a bit overboard. Although I still find it unsettling/outrageous that the police have the power to imprison people for up to 28 days under the Terrorism Act through mere suspicion alone. They don’t even need evidence. The detention is so they can safely go get some without fear that said individual is going to do something in the mean time. Scary isn’t it? That if they wanted, they could detain YOU under the terrorism act because they suspect, reasonably or not. They don’t need a shread of evidence. Frightening.
What I did find particularly interesting about the case I mentioned though, is how the checks and balances that the government DID laud, are woefully inadequate.
I mean, the magistrates courts have always been a waste of space by virtue of them being “lay people”. As such, the police looking for an extention to the time they can detain terror suspects is an absolute formality. After all, magistrates don’t know enough to challenge whether the police are justified in seeking the order, and in any case, they don’t want to be the one who refuses and allows the person to gr free, only for them to go on and comitt an act of terrorism on release.
So with regard to warrants, detention extensions etc… in this country, there is NO-ONE who will err on the side of the person and their right to freedom, putting the burden on the police to justify their requests. It’s all a formality, and in addition, we have no “fruit of the poisonous tree” doctrine in this country, so even if evidence is illegally obtained, it can still be used against you. So there isn’t really any incentive for the Police to follow the law at all.
What a funny country we live in eh?
Wednesday 18 February 2009 at 1:25 pm
I think if we were to engage in conversation with the girl from a “South American regime” it is likely she would warn that now being witnessed is quite likely the “seeds” of something more akin to her own experience. I also expect she would express regret that when these same seeds had emerged in her native country, a better stand was not made.
It’s important to note that IMHO a lot of the passion surrounding this issue relates to a complete lack of trust in the current government, in particular that these new laws will be abused and will only serve to limit the freedom of the press and our civil liberties.
Wednesday 18 February 2009 at 1:27 pm
None of this gets to the bottom of the issue.
I once took a picture of a police officer making an unprovoked assault on someone. It response, he shoved me against a wall, took my phone from my hand, deleted the picures I have taken, and gave it back. Broken.
Then he told me that if I took a picture again, he would ’smash my fucking face in’.
I told him that his job was to uphold the law, not to break it. Then promptly ran away!
Of course I have absolutely no evidence for this. That was the point of doing what he did.
This law will do that job for him. Further, I really don’t see the benefit of putting it through in the first place. The Government protests at being portrayed as overbearing, but then it embarks on bits of legislation like this without there being any substantial problem; that’s before we even get into whether it’s democratic to ban citizens taking pictures of their own police force.
IMHO the only people who should be banned from photographing police in a democratic society are Lib Dem Focus teams.
Wednesday 18 February 2009 at 1:28 pm
‘I had taken’, even.
Wednesday 18 February 2009 at 1:30 pm
i add my support to alexander thompson’s post
Wednesday 18 February 2009 at 1:42 pm
Police state?
Lets see?
Arrest without trial? Yes
Police unaccountable locally? Yes
Police controlled from central Government? Yes.
Political arrests? Yes.
Looks like we are more than half way there based on simple FACTS.
(I know politicians do not like FACTS so they fiddle the crime and immigration numbers: more FACTS)
Wednesday 18 February 2009 at 2:12 pm
Pubs ordered to install Big Brother CCTV cameras – or risk losing licences
Big Brother-style plans to force pubs to install CCTV cameras raise ‘serious privacy concerns’, the surveillance watchdog has warned.
Photographers angry at terror law
Hundreds of photographers have staged a protest outside Scotland Yard against a new law which they say could stop them taking pictures of the police.
Restaurant fined £8,000 after third prosecution over smoking ban
The owners of a Bradford restaurant face having to pay out more than £9,000 after being prosecuted for a third time for flouting the smoking ban.
Government ‘exploiting terrorism’
Former MI5 head Dame Stella Rimington has claimed the Government had exploited people’s fear of terrorism to restrict civil liberties. In an outspoken interview she said ministers risked handing a victory to terrorists by making people “live in fear and under a police state”.
Drinkers could lose their benefits and be made to take alcohol tests
PEOPLE who lose their jobs could be denied unemployment benefit if they refuse to tell the government how much they drink.
New powers will allow for individuals who apply for jobseeker’s allowance to be forced to take compulsory alcohol tests if officials do not believe what they say about their drinking habits. Those who refuse to cooperate could be deprived of the benefit for six months. Officials will also be able to check the truth of applicants’ answers through other agencies, such as the police. The proposals are part of the government’s welfare reform bill.
Rail Couples Told ‘No Kissing’ At Station
Lovers parting at a Cheshire rail station may find themselves caught in a dangerous liaison – especially if they share a kiss under the ‘No Kissing’ sign. Far from killing the mood, authorities argue the aim is to stop commuters missing their taxis.
Officials at Warrington Bank Quay Station agreed to a romance-free zone, which was suggested by the local chamber of commerce.
Police shut down ‘Terminator’ Facebook page
POLICE have shut down an on-line social networking page after hundreds of furious motorists left messages about a Suffolk traffic warden dubbed “The Terminator”.
‘Stalin-style’ arrest of Tory MP by terror police sparks fury
A MEMBER of the Conservatives’ front-bench team was arrested last night in a dramatic operation which allegedly involved counter-terrorism police and three separate raids.
Children aged eight enlisted as council snoopers
This is just a small sample. It goes on and on and on, in small ways and in large. If you can’t see it, it’s probably because you as a Labour MP are largely responsible for much of it, directly or indirectly. It’s no good bleating that it can’t happen here because this is a democracy: it is happening.
Wednesday 18 February 2009 at 2:24 pm
Tom
Maybe you should ask your fellow Labour MP Austin Mitchell about what Photographers have been having to put up with over the past couple of years, wether or not its a hobbiest snapper, an innocent train spotter, a Freelance Photographer trying to earn a living or a Professional Photographer all these groups of people have been harrased by over zealous Police over the past couple years whilst going about their lawful everyday business, and if you ask Mr Mitchell you find that he has been one of them.
As for the campaign group you have decided to belittle, you will probably find that the first item on the agenda has been probably changed to discuss the change in the law that came into force last Monday making it illegal to Photograph a Police Officer.
In order for the Government to regain the trust of the public on this issue, these abuses of power by the Police need to be tackled, do that we will see the fortunes of the Labour Party improve and that can only be good for the whole Country
Wednesday 18 February 2009 at 3:24 pm
A long time ago, in a city, far, far away, (Edinurgh), I made the mistake of refusing to give my name to two police officers, late in the evening’ because they had ‘no right to ask me and should have been spending their time trying to catch criminals’.
They do have a right to ask you and you are legally required to tell them if they do.
I found this out the hard way. They took me to the cop-shop (and I’d been looking for a chip shop) and charged me with about a dozen different offences, any one of which would have received a custodial. After about an hour in their care, something strange happened to my brain and I apologised. It wasn’t fear, or sudden alarm. Something that had been infusing me with arrogance had begun to wear off and I realised that I had been a total fool. So evil and vindictive were they that they dropped all the charges in return for my contrition, except one for being a nuisance. I was let off the next morning with a warning. The morning warning.
I certainly learned a lesson, which is all they wanted me to do.
Wednesday 18 February 2009 at 3:40 pm
Are you getting the message Tom.
Labour are totaly out of touch
Wednesday 18 February 2009 at 4:09 pm
Tom,
As others have said, just because we haven’t reached the level of state control and elimination of freedom enjoyed by the Burmese doesn’t mean that the state isn’t limiting our freedom for their own desires.
No one (well maybe a few labourites) believes it will help reduce terrorism.
Can’t photograph the police, but they can photograph us.
Who is master, who is slave?
In a democracy the power should reside with the people, not with those employeed by them; that includes the police and every MP.
The job of the police is to prevent harm to the public, arrest criminals such as burglars.
The problem is, we the public are all now considered guilty until we can prove ourselves innocent.
We can be help without charge for 28 days and interrogated at all hours of the day and night with no comeback. Can’t sing in the presence of the police, they might decide to take offence (remember spider pig?).
Even in China the police are legally required to inform your next of kin when you are arrested, not so here.
You may be happy with the erosion of liberty and freedom along with the suppresion of dissent, many people aren’t.
Very slippery slope and your party is adding grease.
Freedom lost is very difficult to regain and as a member of a formerly socialist party you might consider your party’e history and the fights for liberty and freedom.
Wednesday 18 February 2009 at 4:13 pm
A better man than you, Winston Churchill, said “the price of freedom is eternal vigilance”.
I think Wendell Phillps said that, ‘Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty.’ He preceded WSC by some years.
Do try to get it right before you spout off. There’s a good twit.
Wednesday 18 February 2009 at 5:09 pm
Tom,
I can help you out with your reasoning.
Surely by curtailing Civil liberties we are not exactly setting a good example to follow for Police states?
Wednesday 18 February 2009 at 5:17 pm
Stu mentions Austin Mitchell, your own Labour MP. Well then, what about Walter Wolfgang? Bundled out of the Labour Party Conference when he shouted “nonsense” during Jack Straw’s speech defending the war in Iraq. Wolfgang, a Labour Party member for over 50 years, an escapee from Nazi Germany, later attempted to re-enter the conference, whereupon the police used powers under the terrorism act to prevent the 82 year-old from entering the building.
This is not a one off. The police do this sort of thing all the time, particularly when they don’t want witnesses.
Gordon Brown talked about liberty in the early days; this is what Brown said declared in a speech of 25th October 2007:
* respecting and extending freedom of assembly, new rights for the public expression of dissent;
* respecting freedom to organise and petition, new freedoms that guarantee the independence of non-governmental organisations;
* respecting freedoms for our press, the removal of barriers to investigative journalism;
* respecting the public right to know, new rights to access public information where previously it has been withheld;
* respecting privacy in the home, new rights against arbitrary intrusion;
* in a world of new technology, new rights to protect your private information;
* and respecting the need for freedom from arbitrary treatment, new provision for independent judicial scrutiny and open parliamentary oversight.
Brown has done the exact opposite in every case.
The papers run a daily roster of stories about the restrictions on liberty since the Labour party gained power. They range from the Wolfgang affair, a one off, to the institutional snoopers charter known as RIPA.
I wonder how Tom would feel if he arrived at his HoC office to find police going through his constituency papers, and then had to spend the night in the cells?
The truth is out there and is staring us in the face, but regarding the Police and photography, the question I ask is,
If the police have nothing to hide, how could they object to being photographed?
And finally,
“arbitrary arrest and prison without due process.” That’s what the current terrorism lawd allows. It has already been condemned by an international panel of lawyers. This government is complicit in the detentions in Guantanamo Bay and has actively sought to suppress those facts.
It may not be Harare, but we are on the road and we need to get off.
Wednesday 18 February 2009 at 5:17 pm
@ Johnny Norfolk.
Don’t worry about it. They’ll get the message in about fourteen months.
Wednesday 18 February 2009 at 6:07 pm
The sad thing is that if the police exercised their powers on MPs#, then they would know only too well what we are writing of.
But there are none so blind as those who will not see.
In my youth I read the biographies of many of the founders of the Labour movement (as well as other politicians). Many would have disowned the current Labour Party on its record on policing, crime and ID cards…
# Should be Labour MPs. A few Conservative ones know how free the police are with their powers: See D Green MP and a certain Mr Quick.
And in police states, policing is politicised… Certainly is here…
Wednesday 18 February 2009 at 7:54 pm
Alternatively put:
‘We don’t live in a police state like, say, Burma, therefore trust us as we relentlessly take away fundamental rights you previously took for granted.’
Yes, sound reasoning, Tom. Britain doesn’t have politicians anything like as corrupt as, say, Equatorial Guinea, therefore corruption by British politicians can be safely overlooked.
Wednesday 18 February 2009 at 8:47 pm
Jim Baxter@
“I certainly learned a lesson, which is all they wanted me to do.”
So, now you know who’s in charge…
Wednesday 18 February 2009 at 9:26 pm
@colin.
‘So, now you know who’s in charge…’
I do indeed.
I am, which is what they wanted me to learn.
Wednesday 18 February 2009 at 9:51 pm
Tom,
I’m a active Labour party member and I have a lot of respect for you and really enjoy your blog, but I have to take issue with your position on the photography clause. While I agree with your point that we are in no way a police state, I have to take issue with your apparent belittling of the provisions of Section 76 of the Counter-Terrorism Act 2008.
The provision is a threat to the freedom of the press, not to mention it will give only further license to the police to interfere in one of the UKs most popular hobbies. You just have to ask a couple of photographers (whether tourists, serious amatuers – like myself, or professionals) to hear horror stories of the police abusing their existing powers and stopping photographers for no justifiable reason. The Home Secretary needs to make it clear that photography is not a crime and should not be treated as such as it currently is by some in the Police.
And I have to ask why this clause is even needed? Surely existing counter-terrorist legislation should provide enough powers for the police where a genuine threat exists; after all there have been seven pieces of legislation passed in Parliament since 2001 that specifically deal with terrorism.
But can you please tell me one example where a photo of a policeman has been used to conduct a terrorist attack? When asked yesterday the Home Office couldn’t give one example to the NUJ or BBC London News
Wednesday 18 February 2009 at 10:25 pm
A few years after New Labour came to power, my company received a demand from a local housing benefit fraud office for the names, addresses, telephone numbers, NI numbers, work histories and other personal data we held in respect of everyone who worked for us or who had registered with us as job seekers.
The department argued that trawling for possible frauds in this manner was justified as, statistically, some of my applicants and/or staff had to be benefit frauds.
Appalled at this gross intrusion into the lives and privacy of innocent people, I refused to comply with the request. The Data Protection Agency subsequently upheld a complaint I made in respect of this blanket request, finding it in breach of the Data Protection Act. Such requests could only be made, the DPA stated, in individual cases where there were reasonable grounds for suspicion of fraud.
A few years later my company received another, identical request for blanket information about innocent job applicants and working people. I again refused to comply, however, this time the fraud office sent me a copy of the relevant, revised section of the Act stating that I was now compelled by law to comply.
The protection of the Data Protection Agency/Act had been emasculated and replaced with the Information Commissioner/Act to allow a wide range of government agencies to pry into the private lives of innocent people.
So we are all effectively regarded as objects of suspicion under your government, Tom. The presumption of innocence which has been enshrined as one of the cornerstones of our law and freedom for centuries has been replaced in this sector of the law with the outrageous presumption of guilt until proven innocent.
Are you not concerned about this?
Wednesday 18 February 2009 at 10:35 pm
@Jim Baxter
Wednesday 18 February 2009 at 4:13 pm
“I think Wendell Phillps said that, ‘Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty.’ He preceded WSC by some years. Do try to get it right before you spout off. There’s a good twit.”
You lefty arse. If you are going to slag someone off, try to get the spelling right.
Mr Churchill was quoting Thomas Jefferson, in the same way that Phillips was. Note the extra “i”.
Thursday 19 February 2009 at 12:05 am
Found this somewhere, quite relevant to the current state of affairs here.
CLUES THAT YOUR COUNTRY MAY BE TURNING INTO A FASCIST STATE
NOTE: Some of these symptons are found in non-fascist countries where they should be treated as serious warning signs. On the other hand, fascist states – unlike democratic nations – have many, if not all, of these symptoms.
Your president asserts the right to ignore part or all of laws passed by the national legislature.
Massive warrantless searches
Your president and other officials regularly lie to you
Fraudulent election counts
Government monitoring of letters, emails, phone calls and checking accounts
Secret courts
A government subservient to the interests of the countrys largest corporations.
Use of torture on prisoners
Courts that support presidential use of unconstitutional powers
Massive spying on citizens, especially those involved in political dissent
A government that uses words like democracy, freedom and peace while engaging in acts dramatically at odds with such words
Government agencies or officials declaring themselves exempt from portions of the law or constitution
Creation of watchlists, no-fly lists and similar exclusionary documents
National ID cards
Massive use of cameras to spy on citizens
A media supportive of, or obsequious towards, the government in covering its police state activities
Lack of legal recourse to stop illegal government actions
Prison without trial and arrests without charges
Thursday 19 February 2009 at 12:35 am
@MrDavies
Then cite your primary references and don’t try to look big by quoting the source everybody has heard of, you boring buffoon.
Now, you want to play another hand? Seems to be all you do.
Thursday 19 February 2009 at 10:09 am
Why no response Mr Harris? Or are you going to agree to disagree on this one? Civil liberties issues seem to attract plenty of comment, much of it concerned about the direction we are travelling in. You have a family. Are you concerned about the future they are set to inherit? At the moment, it looks like a totalitarian one.
Thursday 19 February 2009 at 11:38 am
I notice that quite a lot of coppers on demos now wear scarves that cover most of their face, why do they do that I wonder?
Maybe they will pass a new law so that coppers don’t have to wear their collar numbers.
Thursday 19 February 2009 at 11:49 am
Mr Harris’s children will not be on the child register as MPs deemed it would be unsafe.
Our children will be.
One law for the rulers.. another for the ruled..
Sounds like an example of : a police state.
Thursday 19 February 2009 at 1:10 pm
No, the UK is not a police state, although the laws are now there should any future government wish to make it one. However, to use the most common comparison, “not as bad as East Germany” isn’t quite the ringing endorsement many Labour MPs seem to believe.
Friday 20 February 2009 at 2:29 pm
Officials may soon decide that genitals are a more reliable form of security ID than the face or retina
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/feb/20/features-comment
Tulsa today, UK tomorrow.
No one will be allowed to object as it is part of the anti-terrorism agenda.
Friday 20 February 2009 at 2:39 pm
Mr Harris, have you paid any attention to the comments made here? Probably not, to judge from the contributions you made to the “1984″ corresondence. There’s none so blind as those that won’t see.
IF ONLY we could believe that the Conservatives would do anything about it! One thing seems quite certain, they will have the chance to do it.
Tuesday 24 February 2009 at 5:12 pm
Hylton Redhouse Estate Sunderland
One housing estate was once covered by two separate wards. The electoral
register shows that BOTH wards for this one housing estate have the same
identical and similar errors in voters personal registry numbers.electoral
register error number patterns continue into the 1960’s and 1970’s and probably into the 1980’s and 1990’s.