HITLER managed to “put the Jews in their place”, according to this video of radical Islamist scholar, Yusuf Qaradawi.
According to this paper, written by Qaradawi, the beating of wives is acceptable. And here, Qaradawi writes that western tolerance of homosexuality “put man in a position even worse than animals” and suggests that capital punishment is an appropriate response to homosexuality.
But, according to Osama Saeed, who leads the Scottish Islamic Foundation, Qaradawi is an “eminent scholar”. Saeed has complained that the BBC accurately reported Qaradawi’s relelant views of violence against women and homosexuals.
Oh, and did I mention that Saeed was last week formally endorsed as a parliamentary candidate for the nationalists in Scotland?
In doing so, the nationalists have become the first “mainstream” party in the United Kingdom to endorse an Islamist candidate.
Saeed, a former aide to Scotland’s First Minister Alex Salmond, and whose organisation was given £400,000 of public money by Salmond shortly after it was set up, subscribes to the fundamental principle of Islamists throughout the world: the re-establishment of a worldwide caliphate.
Why has a party which has made such strides in establishing its “moderate” credentials allowed itself to become the only party in the country trying to elect an Islamist to parliament?
I suspect that if you were to speak to nationalists at every level in the party, from leafleter to Salmond himself, you would find an ignorance, or even apathy, about Islamism and the threat it poses. It’s more important, they will claim (probably only privately), to have an articulate young Muslim fighting a seat that is currently held by Scotland’s only Muslim MP, Mohammad Sarwar, and which will be fought at the next election by Sarwar’s son, Anas, as Labour’s candidate.
Perhaps Saeed’s views on separate state-funded Islamic schools and his support for clerics’ extremist views will play well in the seat which has a high population of Muslim voters, they have concluded. If so, then endorsing an Islamist is a small price to pay for the prospect of winning the seat, surely? That’s a very patronising and ignorant view, of course, so highly likely to be held by the SNP.
Salmond and the rest of his party are turning a blind eye to Saeed’s views. Either that or they fully understand the illiberal and intolerant nature of Islamism and wish deliberately to entrench it in Scottish and British society, or see such infection of the body politic as a small price to pay for winning some votes.
Or perhaps, like the Scottish media, they believe that different standards should be applied to Muslim and non-Muslim candidates, or at least tolerated? This is a dangerous and sensitive area to write about, after all, and no-one wants even to risk being accused of racism. “Islamism? Isn’t that the same as Islam? Well, it’s a cultural thing, isn’t it? All very complicated…”
No electoral prize could justify the endorsement of an Islamist as a Parliamentary candidate. There is a huge difference between Islam and Islamism. Islamism, the view that Islam is a political as well as a religious movement, has found its voice in controversial organisations such as Hizb-ut-Tahrir, the Muslim Brotherhood, the Muslim Association of Britain (for which Saeed acted as spokesman for a number of years) and Al-Quaeda.
No socially liberal, progressive, democratic party would ever have endorsed Osama Saeed as a parliamentary candidate. Following his endorsement by the SNP, it’s fair to say that no socially liberal, progressive, democratic party yet has.














Sunday 26 April 2009 at 9:35 am
All true, but which Government has empowered and even thrown money at unelected & unaccountable groups like the Scottish Islamic Foundation or Muslim Association of Britain? Labour aren’t blameless in this mad situation where we validate these crazy groups who are elected by no one, accountable to no one, and speak for no one but themselves.
Sunday 26 April 2009 at 10:05 am
As an isolated issue, it’s absolutely appalling this guy has been selected, but, as Bob Jones says, it is indeed your Labour govt that has been soft on the Islamic threat from day 1. The fact that we have 300,000 Pakistani students here every year is just….. how can you not see there may be problems? How can you not realise that a lot of the Muslim world harbours at least resentment towards us? It’s quite obvious at least one of those 300,000 may have extreme views and may choose to act upon them – whether it be a homophobic murder, an anti-Semitic assault, a racist attack or terrorism indeed, those are dangers that should not be put upon Britain. The truth is that we gain NOTHING from foreign students: in most cases we fund a lot of their course, and obviously they simply naff off when their course is finished. Either Austen or the other non-Neville Chamberlain said “no British government will or should risk the bones of a single British Grenadier guard”. The same principle applies to domestic , 21st century policy: Never risk a British life, and that’s what you’ve done by being soft on Islamist nonsense. However, at least you, Tom, report it. The SNP are probably pleased with themselves for finding someone who hates Britain as much as they do.
In fact, come to think about it, if the four countries of Britain were independent, that would make it a lot harder to track terrorist activity if it crosses borders.
I have blogged about the SNP candidate here: http://www.workingclasstory.com/2009/04/islamist-chosen-for-snp.html
Sunday 26 April 2009 at 10:08 am
Islam extremism is something that has destroyed the image of Islam and did you know Sunni Muslim Schlars (the Liberal Muslims) have made verdicts at large gatherings to announce that terrorists have no place in Islam.
I have wrote many blog posts about this and will write another one about this issue and post the link here so you all can have a read about what Islam teaches and what these terror supporting Islam’s name destroying people teach.
Sunday 26 April 2009 at 10:11 am
Like Bob Jones says, the government throws our money at groups and ‘charity’ fronts and it’s to turn our country to crud through social engineering. One reason is the destruction of our way of life, leading to a weakening of patriotism and ripe for a full takeover, sorry surrender, to the European empire our forebears prevented Hitler and Napoleon from sustaining.
I’m surprised at Saeed’s endorsement by the Nats. When I read such things, I’m glad I’m not a member of that party either.
As I commented on LabourList yesterday (yes, it’s still there!):
And yes…what about the Gurkhas? I guess patriots are no longer welcome in Britain. Potential terrorists? Hate preachers? Come on in and get the red carpet treatment.
What truly twisted priorities this government has.
Sunday 26 April 2009 at 10:23 am
“…radical Islamist scholar…”
?!
You are sadly and massively ill-informed, Tom. I think you’ll find he is widely regarded as a moderate. And I’m afraid for once I’m being serious.
Yet another of your lot’s Elephants In The Room.
Sorry, wrong metaphor, because you’ve been nurturing similar monsters, continuously, throughout your period in power.
Did you honestly never think it through?
Sunday 26 April 2009 at 10:32 am
Tom, can you please link to this blog post that I have written in your blog post so that readers can get some back ground info into true Islam and the extremism that is destroying the image of Islam.
http://www.irfanahmed.org/2009/04/snp-pick-extremist-as-candidate-and.html
Sunday 26 April 2009 at 10:38 am
Interesting, Tom. You point out the embracing of Islamism by the Nationalists and give a reasonable analysis of their motives, yet three of the first four posts attack Labour.
Of course it’s natural that Nationaists and Islamists are happy bedfellows. After all Islamism is a kind of Nationalism, hoping to build a calipahte in/across all Muslim nations. At root Nationalisma nd Islamism have the same philosophical and psychological roots.
You put it very nicely when you say;
“That’s a very patronising and ignorant view, of course, so highly likely to be held by the SNP”
Sunday 26 April 2009 at 11:55 am
“Following his endorsement by the SNP, it’s fair to say that no socially liberal, progressive, democratic party yet has.”
Tom, like it or lump it (and you clearly lump it) but you are talking about the party that forms the Scottish Government, democratically backed by the same people that have the SNP riding high in the polls.
It was a socially liberal, progressive and democratic party that stood up for a Scottish immigrant when the Home Office was going to deport him over a mere £80.
Do you still not understand that trying to reduce the SNP to an angry, rag-tag, rabble you are actually serving to increase their popularity?
Sunday 26 April 2009 at 12:16 pm
Is tat it, Jeff? Is that the full defence by the SNP of its decision to endorse an Islamist as a parliamentary candidate?
Sunday 26 April 2009 at 12:29 pm
Jeff sounds like a besotted gangster moll snarling at the voting public threats of “better shut up if you know what’s good for you”.
Quite disgraceful. It’s also wrong, not least on the difference between an Executive and an Government, but also on simple matters of majority representatives.
Sunday 26 April 2009 at 12:43 pm
I don’t think we should be pitting ‘Muslims’ against any other constituency. This appears to be precisely the Salafist aims of Saeed et al. to portray Scottish Muslims as another estate which are at threat from the big bad non-Muslim world.
Furthermore, Alex, I cannot see Islamism as a form of nationalism – the latter concerns one particular national/ethnic group’s pride in their own identities, and is not inherently a bad thing. Saeed’s Islamism or jacobite jihadism, however, seeks to define all Muslims – from myriad ethnic groups and confessionals – as a poorly defined homogeneous mass.
Most Scottish Muslims hail from S.E. Asian backgrounds and are of the quietist Barlevi or Sufi strains, if practising at all – not the Arab-orientated Muslim Brotherhood which Saeed represents.
Dave H, are you aware of Qaradawi’s cups of poison? He’s not even a moderate in the Chomskyian sense. Furthermore, let’s have a look at Kemal El-Helbawy’s views on targeting Israeli/Jewish children as young as two. Or the rhetoric of Azzam Tamimi, who’d apparently self-detonate in Israel if only he were given a visa, calling Israel a “cancer” (it’s an Israeli site, it’s a mistranslation! Oh, it’s in English). Or, maybe, Mohammed Sawalha who heads the British Muslim Initiative and has been named by B.B.C Panorama and U.S. courts as a fugitive Hamas commander.
The latter two have been introduced to Linda Fabiani by Saeed (although Sawalha appears on Executive discourses *below* Ismail Patel who knows what‘s good for Jews and what they should not do). The former has been entertained at S.I.F. shindigs, presumably with U.K. taxpayers’ money. Here is another chap whom Saeed thinks “preaches peace.
Happy ijtihad.
Sunday 26 April 2009 at 1:25 pm
Matt –
Are you suggesting we don’t allow Pakistani students into the UK? Simply because one of them MAY have extremist views? That’s the most ridiculous argument I have ever heard. Might as well ban all foreigners coming into the UK, as well as some already IN the UK. Need I remind you that the July 7th bombers came from Leeds?
Also, foreign students are worth A LOT to British universities, as international student fees are ridiculously high and aren’t subsidised by the government.
And besides, I should think that Britain owes a lot to Pakistan as a nation, considering what we did to them over the last 200 years.
Sunday 26 April 2009 at 1:37 pm
Wouldn’t swear to it, but I heard a rumour that not everyone was on board with the selection in the first place, seeing it as a good “political move” because Labour have a muslim there;
The rumour I also heard was that several prominent branch members are now keeping a very very close eye on him, and should he make any statements supporting this sort of thing again, either in private or public, he’ll be booted out.
To be fair, the SNP have taken a moderate balanced approach in general towards muslims. Islamic extremism and muslims are two solely different things, much as the Catholic church and neo-nazis that claim to be acting to “keep Jesus white” (wish I was making that up, I’m not) are separate….
I believe that most of the people who put him there were not aware of his more extreme views. It might be that these views are ones he used t hold; a man has the right to change his mind..
If he’s not however, some serious questions should be being asked of this candidate.
Sunday 26 April 2009 at 1:50 pm
I could go on (not got the time, maybe later) but it seems a very odd debate to have this one. I thought the spirit of democracy is such that anyone who votes in a population is equally allowed to stand in a constituency.
By that rationale, would you be suggesting that ‘Islamists’ residing in the UK shouldn’t be allowed to vote Tom?
And an odd comment from Alec there but hey, always the gangster moll, and never the gangster. Story of my life
Sunday 26 April 2009 at 1:57 pm
“I thought the spirit of democracy is such that anyone who votes in a population is equally allowed to stand in a constituency”
Jeff, that was weak, very weak. You know that I’m not suggesting Saeed shouldn’t be allowed to stand anywhere he wants. I’m saying that he shouldn’t be chosen as a candidate for the SNP or any other mainstream party. Do you see the difference?
Let me add this: if an unrepentant Islamist were selected by a local Labour Party, the National Executive would have the courage to deselect him. If it didn’t, I would certainly publicly oppose such a candidacy. Ye there appears to be no-one in the whole of the SNP who is prepared publicly even to raise an eyebrow at this. Don’t you find that odd?
Sunday 26 April 2009 at 2:05 pm
Jeff, do they call you Talula?
I thought the spirit of democracy is such that anyone who votes in a population is equally allowed to stand in a constituency
Indeed one should be. And, if Saeed were of equal views to a non-Muslim or non-Asian, he should certainly be treated equally. I would certainly view him no differently than I would certain senior lights in the Scottish Palestinian Solidarity Campaign who have been caught disseminating Holocaust Denial material or referring to summat called “International Jewry”.
D’you think that the Tory Party should admit former members of the P.I.R.A?
Sunday 26 April 2009 at 3:16 pm
Alec said “Furthermore, Alex, I cannot see Islamism as a form of nationalism – the latter concerns one particular national/ethnic group’s pride in their own identities, and is not inherently a bad thing. Saeed’s Islamism or jacobite jihadism, however, seeks to define all Muslims – from myriad ethnic groups and confessionals – as a poorly defined homogeneous mass.”
I think Islamism is a type of nationalism. It takes a particular group (Muslims) and tries to make it exclusive rather than inclusive, it uses techniques of grievance, imagined oppression and hurt to stir emotional (rather than reasoned) attitudes to the “other”(the west) and distorted narratives of history/fact to create a predominently negative pschology. With the sense of hurt comes a belief that we (the “oppressed”) are able to behave in unrestrained manner to achieve our sacred aims.
Replace “Muslims” with “Scots” and “the West” with “the English”, and it seems like a VG definition of Scottish Nationalism to me.
Sunday 26 April 2009 at 3:50 pm
Alex, I ain’t disagreeing with you about the effect of Islamism or that any differences between it and the more pernicious forms of nationalism is that of between apples and oranges.
However, I do think it important to acknowledge that traditional ethno-nationalism, for good or bad (or, more accurately, both), frustrates ‘conversion’ to it (cf. the need of certain non-Scots Snuppies to ‘prove’ they’re as good as the rest and worthy of acceptance). Islamism, being an iteration of a certain proselyting religion, welcomes converts to its big anti-Walton family.
Furthermore, Saeed’s vision of the communalising of population groups (it always amazes me how middle-class wannabe alpha-males such as Rowan Williams argued that greater social power be passed to other middle-class wannabe alpha-males) is not necessarily the same as the biological racism which said pernicious nationalism oh-so-often segues into.
He appears happy to live alongside other population groups: hell, he doesn’t support terrorism and violent insurrection on *our* streets! Consider the appalling “covenant of security” you may have heard from such mouths.
As far as I can see, Saeed et al. wish to avail themselves of the manifold economic and monetary benefits offered by secular Western societies, whilst appointing themselves as gatekeepers for defined section of the population. For instance, instructing audiences at Dundee University that co-operation with Police should go through him.
Islamism, therefore, should be seen more as a liberation theology than classical nationalism. Of course, there’s nowt inherently wrong with that. It’s just that so should, oh I don’t know, Zionism.
Sunday 26 April 2009 at 3:57 pm
Tom – I’ll be writing more on your post at my site later, hopefully. Right now – in this part of the debate – over ‘Islam & Islamism’ – can I point you to a suggestion I made at my site some time ago, to try to differentiate the terms used?
http://keeptonyblairforpm.wordpress.com/2008/12/10/islamists-or-islamicists-the-language-of-islam/
Islamist or Islamicist?
The way I see it the words “Islamism/Islamists” are being mis-used. We should more accurately call radical extremists “Islamicists”. The fundamentalists who lay claim to the “true” religion, but are in fact politically religious, should not be described as “Islamists”, in my humble opinion. If fundamentalists and the TRUE adherents of the “peaceful” religion of Islam ARE quite different, then this confusion of terms only helps radicalists’ cause.
This is exactly what THEY want us ALL to do.
Sunday 26 April 2009 at 4:04 pm
How do you define an “Unrepentant Islamist”, Tom? Is he, as he would claim, one who follows to the letter the sacred instructions in the Koran?
If not, what?
Sunday 26 April 2009 at 4:26 pm
I’m sorry Tom, did you just declare that Democracy is bunk because religious Muslims are allowed to be candidates?
This coming from the party who allowed criminals to vote?
Who knows! Perhaps criminals vote Labour?
After all, Labour loves the poor so much they make more every time they get elected.
Sunday 26 April 2009 at 4:32 pm
I’m not sure how the SNP choose their candidates.
If it is the local parties who make the choice then it has little to do with salmond. Though allowing someone to be a party member with those attitudes is worrying.
If, on the other hand, those allowed on short lists are pre-judged/chosen by the parties head office (like labour) then the SNP in general and their equivalent of labours NEC have a case to answer.
Sunday 26 April 2009 at 5:21 pm
Brian, are you taking that line that criticism of Islamists and Salafists is, by extension, criticism of all Muslims?
This sounds like the Osama bin Laden line that the only ‘true’ Muslims in opposition to Western secularism.
Sunday 26 April 2009 at 5:48 pm
Forgive me if I’m wrong (I’m not) but I understood the Blair government’s attitude to islamist hotheads was,
‘we don’t mind you being in Britain and scheming just so long as you’re not scheming against Britain’.
A doozy of an approach that one was.
Sunday 26 April 2009 at 6:19 pm
I’d make a quick point that whilst I support everyone’s right to believe what they want, the expression of that belief is only valid and fair in or society if it does not trample or advocate trampling on the rights of others;
So you can believe the Great Cuckoo Fairy will come down at the appointed hour and judge all those who use digital watches. That’s fine. Happy for you.
If you go out onto the streets and start advocating everyone to behead anyone wearing a Casio, it’s not.
I’d put muslims in the first category. Sure, they believe some outright unbelievable and silly things, and some truly offensive things (again, to me). As long as they stick to just believeing them, fine, great.
Islamic fundamentalists are not those people though. If they start laying out an ageda based on that doctrine, if they start campaigning to replace Scots law with Sharia, if they start attacking women who aren’t veiled, calling them prostitutes or physically attacking them (as has happened in sme places both here and abroad), if they try and enforce their beliefs on those who do not share them (even if that includes family members; honour killings come to mind here), then it’s no longer religion. It’s extremism, and has no place in our country.
If a person coming from a country where that behaviour is allowed and tolerated arrives on our shores and continues to espouse such ideals, there’s a very quick and easy solution, namely two big heavy border guards escort said person onto the first plane/ship back to Crazy Town. Just because someone has a deeply held religious belief in something doesn’t mean it’s acceptable to act in certain ways.
Worse than all of those however are those who don’t even hold such views, merely wish to use the backdrop of tradition and religion s a method to incite extremism to further thier own political ideals.
It is by no means limited to Islam, Christianity and Judaism both have their own fair share of false prophets that would seek to gain power by claiming beliefs they don’t have…
Not too many in the UK yet, but the US in particular has a big problem with the evangelist types; the ones that think they can use touch-paper issues like gay-marriage to get into office or influence, so they say “It’s in the Bible”, yet strangely go around all clean-shaven and wearing suits made from 2 cloths or more….
We live in a free and fair democracy (most of the time), so they can believe what they want. As soon as they try to politicise their agenda with religion though, that’s where I start getting angry. It besmirches those with a genuine spiritual belief, and scares the rest of the population.
And mainstream parties should have no place in selecting such types.
Is Saeed one of those people? Dunno, never met the bloke. That’s for the local branch.
Sorry for the long post though, thought it important to articulate where *this* SNP member is coming from,
Sunday 26 April 2009 at 8:58 pm
No, Sammy, you’re wrong. Their requirement IS to foment domestic strife.
Clearly they hate our country. Ah, so that’s why New Labour opens the doors for them…
Sunday 26 April 2009 at 10:52 pm
Are Saeed’s views on state funded schools for Muslims any different from Catholic’s views on denominational schools?
Are you advocating the abolition of denominational schools?
Monday 27 April 2009 at 11:46 am
Andrew, pretty lame attempt to deflect attention. Faith schools are not being discussed. The very real concerns about the S.N.P. using *U.K.* tax-funds to finance their campaign programme and endorse a reactionary strain of Islam which is not represented amongst Scottish Muslims is the discussion. Not to mention the snarling response from a civil servant who should be subordinate to *Westminster*, a la McBride.
(Setting aside concerns about faith schools, they at least have developed alongside the public sphere over the decades or more. This is not a reason, as I am sure you know deep down, to introduce un-tested elements, especially those which M.B. aligned bods such as Saeed with to control.)
If anyone wishes to hear some perfect nonsense, have a deik at Saeed’s equating the Labour Government to right-wing European parties (more right-wing than the M.B???) and announcing that there would be no attempts at division and rabble-rousing in his vision for Scotland. Unlike, I assume, Azzam “if only” Tamimi whom I’ve already linked to.
Also note his suggesting that Scottish Muslims feel more ‘Scottish’ than the “white indigenous community”. Alex, this is what I meant about the difficulties in ‘conversion’ amongst nationalist movements.
Oh, what am I talking about, there’s no history of sectarianism in Scotland. Bring it on!!!
Monday 27 April 2009 at 11:58 am
A couple of my musings appear to have disappeared from this thread.
This is no loss to anyone at all,of course, but it makes me wonder whether there’s a technical problem.
Their nature was such…simple reinforcement of other mailings…that I profoundly doubt there was any fear of misprision of felony on your part.
A mystery!
Monday 27 April 2009 at 12:32 pm
Alec,
I’m not really interested in arguing about academic definitions of nationalism.
I merely said that nationalism and islamism have the same philosophical and psychological roots, and that they use many of the same tactics and techniques., e.g
“(Islamism) takes a particular group (Muslims) and tries to make it exclusive rather than inclusive, it uses techniques of grievance, imagined oppression and hurt to stir emotional (rather than reasoned) attitudes to the “other”(the west) and distorted narratives of history/fact to create a predominently negative pschology. With the sense of hurt comes a belief that we (the “oppressed”) are able to behave in unrestrained manner to achieve our sacred aims.”
I have to say, that profile can be applied with no changes at all to any nationalist movement.
If you argue that the looked-for outcomes are different, I would say
a)so-what?
but
b)I would anyway dispute that is the case..
Nationalists want to create a different country and nation based on including one defined group and excluding others, islamists want to create a caliphate on exactly the same basis.
Anyway, my original point is there is no surprise that membership of the SNP would appeal to an islamist, because you are likely to meet like-minded and psychologically compatible individuals in both camps.
Tuesday 28 April 2009 at 1:03 am
Jesus wept! Alex, your disdain at “academic definitions” is coming across as the optical isomer of the tendency to open one’s mind so far that one’s brain falls out in accommodating any religionist who claims to speak for their ‘community’.
There is no dichotomy in considering pernicious nationalism and the *religiously* *reactionary* Islamism represented by the rolled-up trouser snake to be both matters of concern, but still distinct. In fact the insouciance at not divining any thematic difference surely places into the latter’s hand by presenting Muslims as a distinct national group: see also attempts at the U.N. to have opposition to or criticism of religions declared on a par with racism.
Guess who’s driving that initiative.
Tuesday 28 April 2009 at 1:54 am
Alex
According to research carried out by Dr Jim Mitchell by far the largest grouping within SNP members was those of no religious faith at all.
I would hardly think this would be very appealing to somebody whose main motivation was religious.
My first comment about schools was directed at Tom’s remarks about Saeed’s views on state-funded Islamic schools.
Tuesday 28 April 2009 at 11:05 am
Andrew, the biggest group anywhere would be those of no religious persuasion.
In any case you strengthen my point: that the prime motivation of islamists is not religious, it’s a type of nationalism.
And if you’re they type to believe in myths about gods, you’re likely to be the type to believe in myths about nations and races and countries…..
Tuesday 28 April 2009 at 3:26 pm
Math Campbell-Sturgess. Ask yourself this – would Nicola Sturgeon and Sandra White be campaigning for someone who believed in stoning women?
Would SNP members like Grant Thoms and Alex Dingwall be campaigning for someone who was a homophobe?
Would an Islamic extremist have as his campaign manager a woman called Esther Sassaman?
Perhaps one or two of those individuals might be taken in by ‘the rolled up trouser snake’ as he is described – but all of them? That is just not credible.
You just need to use your common sense here. There are smears which are believable and smears which are just plain silly. This is in the silly category.
Tuesday 28 April 2009 at 4:14 pm
Indy, it’s not difficult
If he’s not an islamist why doesn’t he denounce Al Quaradawi, a man whose views are clearly unacceptable in a modern liberal democracy?
And if he doesn’t denounce Al Quaradawi, why does the SNP endorse him?
Who knows why Nicola Sturgeon is campaigning for him? Why don’t you ask her?
More oimportantly, why don’t you ask yourself?
Wednesday 29 April 2009 at 3:05 am
Indy, Saeed is a product of a sophisticated modern Islamist Muslim Brotherhood ideology being charted by another arch-snake, Tariq Ramadan. We all need to get up to speed about this. He’s no racist, certainly not a terrorist. He’s not a woman hater either. He’s sleekit. That’s why Alec calls him the rolled up trouser snake. ‘More dangerous, because well hid’. He seeks allies. He seeks to disarm and charm opponents.
But his agenda is still divisive, dangerous, toxic: the enlargement of political Islam within the public space and the infiltration of government so as to influence policy. In a word – Islamisation of the west.
He has two arms of this strategy: one is the Muslim population which he seeks to be the gate-keeper of, and strives to inculcate its sense of special grievance, keep its radical pushing edge sharp. Make it feel marginalised and insecure.
The second arm is what I call Stupid White People: those clean-living bona fide bleeding heart liberals whose conscience he bleeds; and those edgy revolutionary romantic warriors whose vanity he flatters by drawing in to his noble cause; whom he can make feel morally uplifted and important. Evangelical.
You should read Ramadan sometime; read him, and about him. How he seeks to twist discourse; to convince Stupid White People to take against themselves; how he has two tongues; one moderate, smooth, accommodating, reasonable, but also meaningless, generalised for the SWPs; but to Muslim audiences in Arabic he sounds much like Quardawi.
He’s utterly Machiavellian.
Wednesday 29 April 2009 at 9:47 am
Why doesn’t he ‘denounce’ someone?
Maybe because we are living in the 21st century?
Maybe because you shouldn’t have to denounce someone as a witch to prove you are not a witch yourself.
Wednesday 29 April 2009 at 10:14 am
Indy, read the article. Al Quarawadi is an extremist Muslim cleric who has some prety unacceptable views and says some pretty unacceptable things.
Saeed says that Al Quaradawi is an “eminent scholar”. Saeed has complained that the BBC accurately reported Qaradawi’s relevant views of violence against women and homosexuals.
I denounce such views. I presume you do.
Why does the SNP candidate in a constituency with many Muslim voters not denounce these views and their perpetrator?
And, given that the SNP candidate appears to endorse these unacceptable views, why does the SNP endorse him?
It’s not a trivial question. We have already seen that the SNP is in deep debt to Brian Soutar’s views on homosexuality and to Archbishop Kieth’s views on adult sexulity in general. Now an SNP candidate seems to be in line with extreme Muslim views on these same matters.
If the SNP has its way Scotland will be a small independent country with many competing interests, but there is no doubt that the churches will be trying to grab what influence they can.
I presume from your name that you are in favour of Scittish independence. If so, you should be speaking out louder than anyone against religious influence on politics.
An SNP in hock to extremist religious views is not a prospect that would help set a newly independent country on the right track, and provides, for me, a key reason against voting for independence and for the SNP.
Wednesday 29 April 2009 at 10:25 am
Scittish independence
I like it!
Wednesday 29 April 2009 at 1:06 pm
Alex I think we have all read the Quilliam Foundation article.
The Quilliam Foundation has of course received almost £1 million of public money from the UK Labour Government (and not a penny from the Scottish Government). Ed Hussain is said to be a card-carrying Labour member (I have no idea if he is) and has certainly praised Mohammed Sarwar to the skies as a role model for Muslims in Scotland (no comment!) Whatever the case Hussain is certainly very close to the UK Government in exactly the same way that Osama Saeed is close to the SNP Government. So you pay your money and take your choice.
You are asking me to accept as gospel the opinion (and that is all it is) of someone who was a bona fide Islamic extremist who now goes about denouncing people who he believes are Islamic extremists on the basis of phrases here and there taken from a blog. This person has also been given funding by the Labour Government and has very publicly praised Sarwar Sr, whose son is standing against Osama Saeed. You will forgive me if I am a little cynical about his possible motives.
In any case, if we go down the road suggested of requiring everyone who comments on Islamic matters to denounce Islamists for fear of being denounced as an Islamist themselves all you will do is kill discussion stone dead and rehabilitate the ancient practice of witch-hunting.
Craig Murray is in no doubt about the real agenda – though I would guess he is the kind of commentator Sunniva would dismiss as a Stupid White Person. Again, you pay your money and take your choice – man of principle or stupid dupe of evil Islamists. This is what he says:
‘The party political nature of the Quilliam Foundation is shown in their astonishing and completely unbalanced attack on Osama Saeed, a prominent SNP candidate and a friend of mine. They try to portray him as an Islamic extremist. If Osama is an Islamic extremist, then I am a Blairite. For New Labour to have even the faintest hope of a respectable performance at the general election, they must protect their Scottish base against the SNP. This pathetic attempt to smear the SNP as connected to Islamic extremism is a blatant abuse of taxpayers’ money.’
http://www.craigmurray.org.uk
I cannot say whether Craig Murray is right or wrong. Possibly Ed Hussain et al genuinely believe that Osama Saeed is a militant Islamist and they have no party political axe to grind in attacking him. But if that is what they believe they are wrong.
As I said earlier it is simply not credible to believe that Osama is some kind of sinister Machiavellian Islamist version of Fu Manchu who has pulled the wool over everyone’s eyes to conceal his snake-like true intentions – to Islamise the west. The idea is so ridiculous all you can do is laugh.
Regarding your other comments – the SNP is not in debt to Brian Soutar’s views on homosexuality or to Archbishop Kieth (whoever he is). Not only did the SNP vote for the repeal of Section 2a, the SNP Government is going further than the Labour/Lib Dem Executive did on issues like widening hate crimes to include homophobic crimes.
The SNP is in debt to Brian Soutar – yes. He donated money to the party. That does not mean that the SNP shares his views on homosexuality, nor does it mean that his views have any influence on SNP policy – indeed, very evidently his views have not had any influence on SNP policy. Your suggestion is a typical smear in other words. If you are prepared to smear the SNP over Brian Soutar why should I believe that you are not smearing the SNP over Osama Saeed?
Wednesday 29 April 2009 at 3:06 pm
Indy, rather a long and defensive post, I would say.
I’m not “asking you” to do or say anything about Ed Hussein.
Tom’s post gives quotes from Al Quaradawi, and his medieval attitudes to women and homosexuals. Saeed thinks Quaradawi is a great teacher, and refuses to denounce these views.
The SNP likes to portray itself as sort of socialist or social democratic or at least progressive. So I am asking you why the “progressive” SNP would harbour, and indeed promote as a candidate, a person of such reactionary views. It seems to me that you are avoiding the question.
As for Archbishop Keith and Brian Soutar, they gave the SNP over £1million between them (or Tom Farmer did at the AB’s behest). Without that money they would (probably) not be in power at Holyrood.
If the SNP has its way and we break away from the UK, these paymasters will want their money’s worth. And we know what currency they deal in: women’s control of their own sexuality, homosexuals’ rights to a normal life, backward looking family and social attitudes, even interfering in science when it deals with human reproductive matters.
If you have swqllowed the story of the “progressive” SNP, it is no surprise if you feel uncomfortable that Saeed is an SNP candidate. I would feel uncomfortable if he was a Labour candidate.
It indicates to me that the SNP is not a forward looking progresive party. At heart it’s reactionary. Like most nationalist movements it looks to the past and to its chosen “certainties”.
No wonder it is funded by fundamentalist Christians and no wonder that it has a Muslim candidate who refuses to condemn the unacceptable views of his teacher.
Wednesday 29 April 2009 at 4:45 pm
So what IS your position on Saeed, Indy?
1. Osama Saeed is NOT a member of the Muslim Brotherhood NOR has any close associations with it.
2. Osama Saeed DOES have close associations with the Muslim Brotherhood – but this is irrelevant to his standing as an SNP candidate in Glasgow Central.
Which?
Answer.
Wednesday 29 April 2009 at 5:46 pm
Alex yes you are asking me to do or say anything about Ed Hussein. You are asking me to believe that his UK Government-funded organisation has no axe to grind. I think that is unlikely though it is possible. But whatever the case from my own knowledge of Osma they are simply wrong. He is neither a reactionary nor an extremist.
The rest of your comments are just silly. If Brian Soutar was the SNP’s paymaster the SNP would be dancing to a homophobic tune right now. That is demonstrably not the case.
If you are concerned about the influence that large donors can have on political parties I suggest you work on your Labour friends to endorse the model of party political funding that the SNP supports – a cap on political donatons with state-matched funding for individual donors.
Wednesday 29 April 2009 at 6:15 pm
Indy, you have not answered my question put to you at 4.45pm.
Answer, please.
Wednesday 29 April 2009 at 6:18 pm
Sorry Indy, I did not mention Ed Husein or any organisation. I did reference Tom’s post and what he said. And you have continuingly avoided addressing that.
As for AB Keith and BS. Think. If they were contributing £1m to Labour, what would you be saying?
You would be saying that Labour was being bought by religious fundamentalists. And you would be right.
That would be bad enough in a UK context. In the context of a newly independent small country, with the churches and the fundamentalists calling in their IOUs, it would be poisonous.
A clear warning to steer clear of any support for independence and the SNP.
Wednesday 29 April 2009 at 7:36 pm
Alex Tom’s post – which was also published as an article on Harry’s Place – is entirely based upon the ‘alert’ published on the Quilliam Foundation website:
http://www.quilliamfoundation.org/index.php/component/content/article/494
Every fact – or smear depending on your point of view – is taken from that source.
That’s fair enough, I’m not making any critcism but it is perfectly fair for me to point out the source of the story.
It’s also interesting Alex that you did not know that. What did you think the source was for statements like ‘according to Osama Saeed, who leads the Scottish Islamic Foundation, Qaradawi is an “eminent scholar”. Saeed has complained that the BBC accurately reported Qaradawi’s relelant views of violence against women and homosexuals.’
Or don’t you require stories to be sourced?
Wednesday 29 April 2009 at 10:22 pm
Qaradawi is an eminent scholar, of course he is. That isn’t measured by how much you agree with the views so selectively presented in the post above or by the Quisling Foundation, but by considering basic measures of scholarship:
- Degrees? Yes, from the most prestigious seat of Islamic learning, Al-Azhar: to PhD level.
- Academic posts? Yes, including his professorship now in Qatar.
- Publications? Over 100 books, some of which are the absolute leaders in the field, such as his work on diagnosing and tackling religious extremism.
- Peer recognition? Yes, including by the same people Quilliam quote and respect. They laud Abdullah Bin Bayyah, who is Qaradawi’s deputy in the International Union of Muslim Scholars.
As for his credentials as a moderate: let me state clearly that nobody who would criticise the teachings of Prophet Muhammad and the Qur’an is going to accept Qaradawi or any other scholar. So why bother trying to argue the case?
Suffice us to note: theologically, he is the main opponent to the extremists (who attack him no end) because he is credible to observant Muslims. Politically, he plays an important role in calling for engagement on proper terms, according to legal means.
So my final point is directed at those who say that Osama Saeed should not have described Qaradawi as an “eminent scholar” – it’s a simple matter of fact. It doesn’t mean he agrees with every opinion of Qaradawi or anyone else, and the demand you should have of Osama is not to “denounce” those views. Rather, why not just ask him his views on Jews, homosexuals, women or whatever?
(Yet I know that some racists would claim that anything he stated on his own behalf is necessarily ‘taqiyyah’ – but then really we have no chance of dialogue so go live in a cupboard or something.)
Leave a comment