And another thing…

Blair had the same agenda, much like Mandelson. There are party agendas and personal agendas.

Blair had a personal aim of power. Labour had a party aim of social progression etc etc.

Cameron has a personal aim of power, the Tories have a party aim of social conservatism etc etc

http://www.workingclasstory.com

There are personal and party agendas

Blair had a personal agenda of getting power, Labour had a party agenda of social progression etc etc.

Cameron also has a personal agenda of power, and the Tories have a party agenda of social conservatism etc etc.

The party aim shines through, no question about that: the leader is simply the vessel.

“He’s a good writer, though, and he would be more respected as an objective commentator if only he would lose the hatred of everything Labour.” You obviously don’t read the Guardian, Telegraph or watch the BBC. Delete Labour and insert Tory about and you have much of the media today which is why people (a) hate the spin and (b) use the Internet to find the alternative viewpoint. We want to know the truth but the media by and large won’t give it. The BBC for example regularly reports on crimes by politicians yet forgets to insert the word Labour. A Tory commits a speeding offence and it’s all over the BBC for days. Darling’s cockup with his forecasts disappeared after two hours from the BBC website!

And the polls don’t mean people have been fooled; they have not and that is why they want Labour with its lies, spin and sheer waste voted out now. Cameron is not an ordinary bloke and we know it.

But he is not seen as a bully, liar and someone who will drive this country into the ground for party advantage like Brown does all the time. THAT is why people will think about voting for Cameron. Brown and his cabal of rabid attack dogs are the best things to encourage Tory voters to get out on the day.

So you have no respect for the mans views until he agrees with you?

This is the number one reason why i could never support a Labour candidate, because there’s no room for anyone else’s view but theirs. If you disagree, you want to crush the poor, empower the rich, gain power for yourself….

You lot, none of you seem to realise or accept that there are good people on the ‘other side’ who perhaps want to achieve the same ends as yourselves but disagree on the means. Such a thing couldn’t possibly be true could it?

Well Tom i’ve grown up with this since the age of 13. I have always had a different political persuasion from my parents and those around me. I’ve been branded an intolerant, a racist, a pro-rich, anti-poor, anti-aspiration, anti-civil rights, anti-gay rights, anti-choice, incompetent, bad, bad man…all of which must be true, because i’m a Tory! Most of it has been because of the pathetic, childish attempts of the Labour Party to smear those who disagree with it into extinction. Well Tom, now the Labour party is 18 points behind in the polls and heading for humiliating defeat and whilst i’ll enjoy every minute of the Labour party in opposition, i’ll never sink to the depths of branding my political opponents as anything but good decent people who want to make things better!

Awful lot of people have fallen for the same thing with Brown for much longer.

1. Could you kindly explain to me what Brown’s agenda is other than short-term tactical games in a attempt to wrong foot the Tories.

2. Do you think you could achieve for Labour what Cameron has done for the Tories?

3. I would like to hear your views on how Labour could revive itself for the election?

Dont worry Tom as I have told you before if Mr Cameron does not do the job well enough we will change him. Just like Labour never do.There are plenty of Tories who would make a good PM, again unlike Labour.

Idiots in power are infinitely more useful than geniuses in opposition.

Surely, even old Labour realise that.

I disagree with both you and Mr Nelson. I don’t claim to be right either! But I do think it at least possible that outside party politics, people just want an administration of decent-minded people. The search for an “agenda” may- I say may- be nothing more than the media searching for a narrative hook. I can’t remember in which of his novels- it might be “Lanark”- Alistair Grey has his protagonist say something like “I wanted an administration of serious, decent Tories”. I was only a teenager when I read it, and no doubt Mr Grey was being sarcastic, but it struck a chord with me then and it does now. Perhaps if the “culture” hadn’t decided about 20 years ago to make “Tory” a synonym for “selfish git” that might not sound so surprising. The disconnect between what I know of myself and other Tories, and how any popular drama (for example) portrays us, has often been perplexing.

I’m wandering, as usual. My point is only that the media and Labour search to find the secret black heart of the Tory mission may be pointless. We may not be lying when we claim not to be ideologues.

“…This is what I’ve been saying about Cameron for ages: he’s a public relations event, not a political leader….”

LOL

And I suppose Browns latest YouTube “sensation” was him showing us all what a great “political leader” he is.

Pull the other one Tom; it’s got Gurkhas on it!

You would do well Tom to listen instead to Daniel Hannon at the Tory conference for what will happen under the next Tory government. We get our country back.

As opposed to that Gordon Brown chap who’s doing such a bang up job that he’s taken you to -20 in the polls against David Cameron.

Clearly you’ve picked a winner…

Ho hum, getting worried Tom?

Your seat is fairly safe you know; labour nationally would have to drop below 18% for you to start being concerned.

I suppose this will be it from now on, the hollowness of cameron, the differing opinions within the conservative party (unlike the always in step labour party fellow travellers).
———–
Will these be your election attacks against the consevatives?

How could anyone ever elect a party which allows for different opinions?

or

Labour may be cack handed, looters and insane, but at least they’re consistant.

I can’t believe you honestly interpret the poll ratings as postive endorsement of Cameron’s leadership. He only has to avoid being caught doing something really, really, bad* to cruise into No.10. Gordon is doing the rest.

*At first I did dream up an example, then a voice told me that given recent events putting such a thing in writing would be ill-advised. It was an infamous Public School activity (though personally I don’t remember it actually going on).

What teh Labour government is doing on tax is no different from Obama’s plans – and supposedly 51% of Conservatives wanted Obama to win, including Fraser Nelson! Was it all false support? Were they just trying to jump on the Obama bandwagon, d’you think?

P.S. I also note that all the Tories most vocal about bashing the 50% top rate also bashed the VAT cut. Presumably because the VAT cut benefitted rather more than the top 2% and they were offended by the hoi polloi getting something.

Blair had an agenda in which he believed and wanted to implement.
—————————————–

Yeah, such a shame then he never managed to implement any of it.

Campaign centre-left and govern right.

So far so good.

‘We’ve got three-and-a-half million layabouts laying about on benefits, and I’m 76, getting up at 6am to go to work to keep them’.
Michael Caine.

Well said, Michael. Shame Tony didn’t quite find the time (with his full agenda and all) to getting round to sort out this problem

Snowflake5, the Tories (and libertarians like me) opposed the VAT cut because it blew another 12 billion that we have had to borrow and which has not made any difference to anyone but gained a brief headline.As for Tom Harris, have a look over on Iain Dale for a transcript of Cameron’s excellent speech

Snow flake,

1) Most conservatives who supported Obama did so for the sake of restoring America place in the world and re-admission to civilisation. His economics were a secondary issue from my stand point (i diagreed with them then and now!).

2) The cut in VAT cost a lot and gained nothing. Its point was to stimulate spending, but at a time when the high street was sicounting 20, 30, 40% and making little difference and extra 2% was always going to be a waste of time!

3) The new 50% band earns the country next to nothing. Its a symbolic sop, a tax on aspiration and entrepreneurs (granted on a few well deserving bankers as well). It stagnates recovery. It was stupid!

But i’m an evil Tory out to get the poor and enhance my own wealth, o look, i’m a thousand ponds into my overdraft…..seems i’m not a rich, thieving Tory after all…..

Cameron has no grit: unlike Gordon who when. there is a major problem and he is in difficulty, stands up and is counted – I assume.

I am obviously deluded and live in a parallel universe..

In my view, any party which has Gordon Brown as its Leader has no moral right to criticise the Leader of any other political party.

Actually, I think Cameron does have a vision of how he wants to Britain to be under his leadership. However it is not particularly idealogical or radical. He is socially conservative on things like marriage, education and children, liberal in terms of civil liberties, and pragmatic when it comes to spending (especially the need to put money in to the NHS and education). Tax cuts are not his raison d’etre, which means that he doesn’t have that right-wing radical idealism that is needed to satisfy some Tories who want Thatcherism-times-ten. That’s why most of the criticism of him in the Tory party comes from the Right, those who think Redwood is correct about everything.

By the way, the Matt @9.01pm is a different person from the first contributor… sorry about the confusion.

I don’t think this country stands much of a chance until people start to understand that the same people are pulling the strings of all the main parties.

If the Tories promise us a referendum on EU membership (and keep it) and we vote to leave the EUSSR-in-waiting, then and only then will a Tory vote be worth anything.

nonsense! absolute nonsense!

Some of your posts, Tom are insightful and give a wonderful insight into life in the Labour Party and Doctor Who as well as being an MP.

Other times they’re really, really weak pieces like this. [And seem to ignore his speech today in Cheltenham] I dunno what to say any more Tom. Really don’t.

“Even in Tory HQ, there are people who plan to jump ship after the election – thinking Tory government will be one big car crash.”

Consider this statement carefully. People at the very centre of the Tory Party are actually anticipating that a Tory government will be a disaster.

Will this sobering thought challenge the blind faith of the Cyber-Tories?

Thought not.

Matt is right. Cameron, unlike myself is not an ideologue. He is a pragmatic Conservative. He had liberal streaks and conservative streaks, thats how you lead a modern political party to victory. Do you remember ‘Our Tone’ Tom, 3 election victories? 3 crushing election victories? How did he win those Tom?

Exactly the same accusations could belevelled at Blair and the whole ‘New’ Labour project. Your odious former leader started all this along with the even more odious Mandelson and Campbell.

Also, 6 days since he died and not a mention of Jack Jones, a man who knew that the Labour party stood for more than just election. Shame on you all. He fought for the rights of working people and pensioners, the same rights that the Political Right (which includes ‘New’ Labour) have systematically sought to remove.

The idiot PM’s ‘tribute’ was an insult from a turncote.

Tony won because he knew the differnce between fairness and equality.

And articulated it stunningly.

@ Snowflake5

You never responded to my query about your blog entry on ‘debt as a percentage of GDP’ – http://www.labourhome.org/story/2008/8/18/12139/6632

Specifically, was the economy really ‘going up’, in the words of that ‘More Or Less’ guest, in January 2009, or was a ’severe recession of the style of the early 90’s (seven concecutive quarters of negative growth)’ actually ‘on the cards’?

By the way, ‘More Or Less’ had a very informative piece about government borrowing in this week’s edition. Worth listening too: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/more_or_less/default.stm

Liberanos, there is no such thing as “fairness”

“fair” is not a word, its a human gut reaction.

“fairness” has peculiarly English origins. Indeed, other languages such as German take their word for ‘fairness’ straight from the English, there being no direct linguistic equivalent.

So now you know, Blair knew jack.

TOM

Go to Keele university and have a look at the Conservative manifesto from 1979, and compare it to NuLabours 1997 one, and tell me the difference.

I imagine Dave is already using it as a template as we speak :0)

As somone who is the nemisis of the left, a working class Tory, I too am not entirely happy with Cameron. I assume the reason is, the minute he has a policy announcement Labour will have some ammunition to attack and distract from Labour’s current situation. Take the fox hunting ban. It was a burning issue with Cameron and now will not be included in the Tory’s next manifesto.

I only hope that when he gets into power that some clear blue water will be put between Conservatism and social democracy. If the “new boss is the same as the old boss” and “the king is dead, long live the king” my disillusionment with politics will be complete.

Emigration or fringe parties for me.

A society is fair where achievable effort and input are reflected in reward.

A society is equal when reward is
unaffected by effort and input.

Snowflake:

Any thoughts about Damian McBride you’d care to share with us? LOL

“…Was it all false support? Were they just trying to jump on the Obama bandwagon, d’you think?…”

Oh the irony! When we all could see just how far ‘up’ Obama Mr Brown was hoping to be.

How much are Labour paying you to ‘blog’ for them? ;o)
It’s probably not enough.

Liberanos, once again there is no such thing as “fair”

Life is 50% effort and 50% luck, go and read Malcolm Gladwell and you might understand.

for example the bulk of top sportsmen are born in the first three months of the year. This allows them to be in the right place at the right time. As too there a thousands of great business ideas that fail, its the way the world is.

Thus a lot of people fail through no fault of their own and you cannot construct a system that will get around the unknowable and the unforeseeable.

This is why reward for hard work is of vital importance, because if you are used to working hard when the breaks come you will be better able to capitalize on them, when the tough luck comes you will be better able to deal with it.

The Conservatives understand this, and understand the importance of tax incentives, the Left do not, they think they can sit at the centre and direct things, which they cant.

‘@ Snowflake5

You never responded to my query about your blog entry on ‘debt as a percentage of GDP’ – http://www.labourhome.org/story/2008/8/18/12139/6632‘

‘Webpage cannot be found’… curiouser and curiouser…

I found it again…

http://www.labourhome.org/forum/?p=3681