And another thing…

To quote one of your earlier posts Tom;

I can see why you are regarded as one of the most perceptive political commentators around.

LOL.

you see Tom, the people of Glasgow South (and Scotland more generally) have not forgotten about the war crimes that the British parliament committed. Labour are a total disgrace and are now facing the electoral consequences. I have absolute no sympathy for your party, you reap what you sow.

Thankfully, there is a positive alternative in Scotland, the SNP – a party that doesn’t need to satisfy middle England or American presidents. That’s who I’ll be voting for in Glasgow South come the next general election.

If I were you I’d vote for the nationalists’ motion in parliament on wednesday and help end this tragedy!!!!

“The Conservatives beat Labour in the the popular vote in Wales (and no number of exclamation marks after that sentence could do that statement justice).”

There’s lovely, isn’t it…?

Although a great result, I don’t imagine there is any serious thinking in the SNP that this will translate directly across to Westminster seats. But given that the party choices at the next General Election will be virtually the same (and – in fact – some of the issues), hard to believe that some of the voting patterns won’t be replicated. Crucial, it seems to me, is the turnout of the core Labour vote. Everything hangs on that…

Perhaps a career as a psephologist beckons for you?

Having said that, after the next election you’re almost assured of a shadow cabinet role.

learned the lesson … voters on the doorstep … telling us its about expenses … not really about europe … economic crisis … started in america … listening to the people … repeat ad nauseum.

I thought the Euro elections last time round were supposed to be the nadir, that you couldn’t possibly go down much from!

Good night had by all I think! I need another bottle of Gin…

Tories were second in Edinburgh as well if I remember correctly. Edinburgh could be turning back blue again.

I hope you’re bringing your pollaxe back with you.

Its enraging that no-one in the party can get rid of a leader who thinks Alan Sugar is a suitable Labour minister; who is booed by veterans in the streets of France; and has now managed to transfer party support to brownshirts.

Although its mildly encouraging that the most obvious of the snivelling careerists who failed to take him out last week have exposed the quality of their own “judgment” so at least we wont be bothering with them in the future – because they are absolutely unelectable as well.

It cannot get any better. Every week and now every day, indeed every hour, it just gets worse and worse and it will carry on in free-fall until he is voted out in a landslide, we have northern facists in the house of commons, a generation of Tory government, and we look back on these as the good times.

Still, at least you beat the Lib-Dems…

That all rather depends on your definition of ‘recent’. Still, at least Obama Beach, as I shall be calling our PM from now on, is insisting that he’s getting on with the job.

He’s apparently a little slow on the uptake that the people don’t want him to do that.

Brown has led Labour to a collapse of such horrendous magnitude that it is has resulted in the worst result possible. The country now has two Nazi’s being elected to represent us in Europe. Britain the country that led by Churchill struggled and sacrificed against Hitler, Britain the nation of Thatcher who fought tirelessly against Communist oppression. Today I’m ashamed to be British to be honest.

http://www.b3ta.com/board/9503306

“Or am I being too pessimistic?”

Just a blip my dear old thing, just a little blip! Now where did I put that deckchair?

Apparently Caroline Flint was persuaded to remove a few choice words from her resignation letter; words like “devious” and “sexist pig”

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1191557/Caroline-Flint-foul-mouthed-f-word-rant-sexist-Gordon-Brown.html

I find that so damn sexy. There’s nothing naughtier than a foul-mouthed woman…

There was a big numpty frae Fife,
Who brought to the country much strife,
The people said ‘Go’,
But Gordon said ‘No’,
I’m your dictator for life.

His colleagues in turn stuck the knife in,
Not for our good; for their own skin,
Now fifteen percent,
For a party so bent,
Means the people deserve an election.

Of the General type we require,
To consign ZaNuLab to the fire,
That they no more will reign,
To cause so much pain,
And inflict on us all of their ire.

Traitors are selling us out without blinking,
Many still vote the same way without thinking,
The people must wake,
And see what’s at stake,
Or Britain will never stop sinking.

The global elites want a One World State,
‘Environment’ issues and ‘peace’ are the bait,
To give up our land,
To this Satanic band,
Who don’t have an interest in Britain being Great.

Let’s fight for our country, it’s OURS don’t you know?
Our fathers shed blood that our children might grow,
With honour and pride,
And with God on their side,
To never surrender these Islands to foes.

Tom
It was a sterling performance.
Your national share of the vote was over 16%.

Anything over 15% is good.

(I think I might have mentioned this before… I’m sorry to be boring but smug to be right)

Gordon’s next target is 12%.

I find a 15% Labour vote on 30% turnout just unbelievable. It means only 1 in 20 of the electorate actually voted for the government.

Personally I think the government’s economic and foreign policies are right. I am disturbed about civil liberties issues, but I don’t think the Tories would be any better. And the Tory excesses in the expenses scandal seem to have been as bad or worse than Labour. (I note that Cameron has hardly had a huge boost from these results.)

The overwhelming problem is Gordon Brown and his personality, which for all the talk about “policy” is indeed a political issue. It seems that the Prime Minster got off on a bad foot be initiating election speculation in September 2007, and has never been able to get back in front since

I think Labour will do very badly in the next General Election, fairly or not, if Mr. Brown is still party leader. He just seems not to get it. One minor issue – why on earth does he keep going on about his “Presbyterian conscience”? Is it better than a Catholic, Jewish, or Humanist conscience?

Brown’s effective second in command, Lord Mandelson, was a marvel to behold on the Andrew Marr show. But that just left the impression that he rather than the Prime Minister now holds all the cards. I doubt Mandelson would get the votes of 1 in a hundred.

–
Paul Halsall
http://englisheclectic.blogspot.com/

Where can I find a breakdown of Euro results on a parliamentary constituency basis?

So you will be speaking out at the PLP meeting tonight then…..

@ Yorkist
“Where can I find a breakdown of Euro results on a parliamentary constituency basis?”

Nowhere. You can view individual areas on the beeb’s website but the European voting was by council area, not parliamentary wards and constituencies…

@Richard
“Nowhere. You can view individual areas on the beeb’s website but the European voting was by council area, not parliamentary wards and constituencies…”

Thanks for that. So why does Tom know his own constituency breakdown and that of other Scots MPs?

Paul Halsall
I was brought up a Presbyterian: same background father as Gordon.

Gordon is a hypocrite. No self respecting intelligent Presbyterian would act like Gordon.. I use the adjective “intelligent” to weed out those who act like him out of ignorance.

Gordon acts as he does – like a mafia don – because he KNOWS it works.

So he’s a hypocrite – amongst other things..

The votes were counted by local authority areas but results are provided by Westminster constituency (which is how Ton knows that the SNP beat Labour in Glasgow South).

@ Yorkist
“So why does Tom know his own constituency breakdown and that of other Scots MPs?”

I presume because his local council areas are broadly the same as his parliamentary seat.

It works better in some regions than others, especially where the population centres are sparse and tightly clustered (like in Scotland) and less well in urban areas (like London or Birmingham) when the council areas overlap into other parliamentary seats.

Tom,

Have a very stiff G&T, relax and consider how bad it could have been if the core labour voters actually thought about what your pary has done to the country.

Give it a few months; a little more spinning, a few more untruths and you never know your seat might be retrievable.

I await the smearing of the SNP, by Scottish labour’s head office, with interest.

The really amusing thing is to hear Labour MPs saying that a change of leader now would spark an election and Labour would do extremely badly.

As if keeping Brown and soldiering on till next year, when huge resentment would be added to the contempt the public have already proved they feel, wouldn’t result in total and utter annihilation for the next twenty years.

The plane needs a crash landing now, in order to avoid flying at full speed into a mountain further on.

Tom, you see it. Don’t you?

At least Gordon is getting on with the job and is the best person to lead the Labour Party and the country. Keep saying it over and over and you may just believe it… even if the voters never will.

Glad to see you have retained your sense of humour.
Your very poor results are the result of not listening and acting on behalf of ALL the people. I think the main turning point was debt and promising a referendum on Lisbon the then not holding it without just cause. People do not like being lied to.This proved that Brown could not be trusted.
Labour cannot recover from this no matter what you do. I suspect you will all do nothing. Take the sal and expenses and hope something turns up.
We can all se that Mandy is calling the shots and has Brown on a string.

What a complete mess.
This is what happens to a party of followers with not enough leadership potential in the ranks. Unlike the Tories who have potential leaders in droves. ( that will be their problem in time)

Stewart Cowan: channelling the ghost of William McGonagall.

@ Liberanos – “wouldn’t result in total and utter annihilation for the next twenty years”.

So sorry to be a pedant, but surely “total and utter annihilation” would be total and utter, rather than merely temporary?

Ah well Tom, you’ve had a good run.

New Labour has had 12 years in which, from this point in 2009 they’ve done what? Brought in a minimum wage and a 10p tax rate, fought a few wars (Bosnia, Afghanistan, Iraq) of which at least one was legal. Destroyed the House of Lords, not by removing the heriditaries but by selling it openly for money and then, having Labour lords openly sell legislation for money. Oh, and then done away with the 10p rate to provide a fop to the Mail reading middle classes. Nice.

So I look forward to my dream scenario taking a step closer to reality – an SNP controlled Scotland, Labour reduced in the north of England while the BNP reduces their core mindless white working class ‘nationaliser’ vote, all the while wrapped in Scottish Gordon’s ‘British jobs’ flag,Tory and Lib Dem ascendency in Wales and southern/central england and, of course, Northern Ireland (that bit of the UK where Labour dare not play for fear of… what? Not Glaswegian sectarianism, surely?)… That should leave you fellas on < 100 seats and most of those will be Skinnerite Old Labour.

C’est la guerre.

Strange.

I heard Harriet Harman on radio 4 and got the distinct impression all was well (and that Gordon is just great).

Still, could be worse. You could be a member of a party that doesn’t have a clue of how to regain the trust of the electorate (even though we keep telling/shouting the answer.)

So sorry to be a pedant, but surely “total and utter annihilation” would be total and utter, rather than merely temporary?

Can something be total without being utter?

@Richard.

Not pedantic at all. An interesting philosophical point.

But the peculiarity of politics is that
parliamentary annihilation can be be temporary. It means having absolutely no MPs at all.

But the creature can, and does come again.

@ Nicky –
Stewart Cowen: putting the mental into fundamentalist

@ Liberanos.

Time to crack those history books.

Feel free to name one party in a modern Westen Democracy that has gone from majority to “annihilation” to majority.

Richard, if you’re going to fire cheap insults, at least try to spell the recipient’s name correctly.

Nicky, thanks for comparing me to the great man.

Richard @ 1.33pm

Thanks for the link. Dearie me such language. Such professional people these New Labour women aren’t they? But simply more evidence that she was in a bad mood and threw a mega tantrum because he didn’t promote her. I’m astonished that all these New Labour, female former cabinet types have worked for this man for such a long time yet not a cheep about his terribly sexist ways or how mean he was to the girlies. Indeed they were backing him publicly at various times. Tsk, women just can’t be trusted in politics: you never know when they’re lying. Who was their mentor again? Ah yes, Blair wasn’t it?

As I have blogged on several occasions, Labour are finished in Scotland.
Oh, sure, they’ll still get a good amount of votes, but they’re not No.1 any more.
I’ve heard the phrase “which can’t really be compared to the Westminster election” used several times in the last couple of days with regards Labour and the SNP.
But the polls for Westminster voting intentions are actually worse for Labour. They’re also worse for the smaller parties. For Westminster, we’ll see at least 25-30 SNP members, then somewhere around Labour and maybe 7 or 8 Tory and a scattering of Lib-Dems, based on recent polling.
Thus, when the GE inevitably rolls around, be it now or in 6 months time, we’ll see, just as we have in the Scottish General election, and now the EU elections, that the SNP is the largest party in Scotland. The pale and weak arguments against independence referendums that the Unionist lobby throw out will be seen to be just that, and with a hopeful upturn in the economy, perhaps we’ll see independence in Scotland in the next 7 or 8 years….

if anybody watched gordons ‘love-in’ yesterday with labour party activists…be afraid, be very afraid.

this is what it will be like from now on…we have entered a dangerous period in this country and these men must not be allowed to keep power for powers sake.

this country wants to move on from the terrible war like feeling the banking crisis gave us…we cannot move on with g. brown still there…he is a lasting symbol to the crisis…his banks, his friends, his regulations.

but now as the country realises what has happened we need to move on and without him or any of the people who were involved.

dont kid yourself tom that this is all about expenses…it is not.

this a hatred for your leader and party that will carry on…its rejection of everything u gave us in your 12 years of leadership.

if u force the people with what we witnessed yesterday and the fear that was felt today when we heard of another resignation is the only way these people can keep power.

stand up tom…lose your salary..whatever…you are an mp…u must realise that what is happening is un-democratic, un-labour like and is not good for the people of this country….

am i right tom?

@ Jo, “Tsk, women just can’t be trusted in politics”

Or behind the wheel of a car.

Just spotted your twitter. Are you genuinely going to blame your non-attendance at the PLP meeting on the trains?

I can only hope some enterprising MP smuggles in a phone or a tape recorder…

@Richard

“Time to crack those history books.

Feel free to name one party in a modern Westen Democracy that has gone from majority to “annihilation” to majority.”

The Progressive Conservative Party of Brian Mulroney in Canada were almost entirely annihilated in Parliament after 1994. The significant “remnant” of “red Tories” allied with the more “blue” Canadian Alliance and now there is a “Conservative Party” government in Canada.

Even if the Labour Party collapses, which I think is doubtful, although possibly deserved, the fact remains that the vast majority of informed opinion in the UK is much more center-left than center-right.

Cameroon has, it seems to me, moved to the right recently, but votes do not seem to have noticed.

The vital issue, still ignored by all parties except the greens, is that *our earth cannot support exponential economic growth*, even that within the expected lifetimes of people alive today.

I am 48 and have HIV, so I don’t expect this to affect me personally.

But if I had kids, I would. As it is I worry for nieces and nephews.

Tom,

Yesterday’s love in was truly frightening. Any leader willing to stoop so low has no intention of ever giving up power. Will there ever be an Election, or will Gordon find a way of getting around one?

Yesterday’s result had nothing to do with expenses and any honest Labour MP would admit that. Saying the Tories didn’t do as well as they had hoped is a joke. Everybody knows that at least 10% of the ukip vote would be ours in a general election.

What’s it going to take to get rid of Brown? You’ve been hammered in the councils, in Europe and the polls for a general election are even worse.

You must be so proud of your parties support for Gordon. People are resigning because he is: sexist, a smearer, incompetent, a ditherer… the list goes on and still you have ministers saying he has their full support. I tell you Tom, the people see the truth and it’s making them sick.

People are starting to wonder if Brown will ever go. After the communist performance yesterday you’ve got to wonder.

“stand up tom…lose your salary..whatever…you are an mp…u must realise that what is happening is un-democratic, un-labour like and is not good for the people of this country…”

Well of course its un-Labour like but it is absolutely New Labour like.

Channel 4 says you called on him to go.

Congratulations.

I undestand Tom stood up at tonight’s PLP meeting and Told GB to go.

If that’s true, Tom, you are one of the few members of the PLP with any courage.

I doubt if the rest will support you…

It doesn’t exactly bode well for the country does it?

On the one hand you have a bunch of cowards who are afraid of their own convictions and who have sold themselves into slavery, preferring that than to stand up for what they believe in.

On the other hand you have another bunch of MP’s who cheer the leader who has just taken them to the worst electoral results in history in the belief that he is the right man for the job.

It has nothing to do with expenses. If you look back this has all stemmed from the McBride emails and the subsequent revelations of how No.10 conduct their business.

No one has been able to believe a single word that has emanated from the place since.

That is why Labour did so badly in the County and European elections.

All we want, all any of us want is honesty and transparency. We will never get it from Brown. The reason the public want an election now is that no one can trust the man to “clean up politics”. He is the very rottenness at the core. Every colleague he smears, every briefing that is given, every Chancellor and “friend” he betrays just cements this deeper and deeper in people’s minds.

He is what sickens people about politics and why more and more people stay away from the ballot box.

He has had long enough to carry out the promises he is currently making. He promised them 2 years ago. Time is up. Too late.

I doubt he’ll go tonight. But if not tonight or tomorrow or the next day…he will go at the ballot box. There is no doubt in my mind about that.

Well done Tom!

About time too Tom!!

You could always resign your seat along with Mr Gibson, call for others to do likewise in order to force the General Election.

Things can only get worse. Go into Opposition now, and you may have a party in ten years. Stay, and the Party’s over.

I live on Walton St in Glasgow South and I’m actually very proud of you tonight for standing up and advising the PM it’s time to go!

Oh my, good move Tom. I salute your courage.

Tom,

People are leaving the meeting and saying that Brown has full support. BBC reporting that MPs have been lined up to cheer Gordon Brown into the meeting. BBC calling it a farce.

This could be the last chance to save your party.

So it’s true!

You found your cojones.

Total deep respect.

You’ve only yourselves to blame Tom.

Perhaps if your party weren’t such a bunch of crooks, we might all still be voting for you.

Ever thought of that as the reason that everyone now despises Labour?

I hear that you stood up to Gordon at the PLP meeting. I have to say that in the atmosphere reported that takes real guts. Hat off to you for the ability to stand against a crowd don’t rock the boat mentality.

From BBC

“After it got under way, Charles Clark, a former home secretary, Slough MP Fiona McTaggart and Glasgow South’s Tom Harris told the prime minister he should quit, BBC political editor Nick Robinson said.”

Thanks a bunch to New Labour and all those facilitated its rise to power and its unswerving race towards neoliberal economic policies, while abandoning their traditional support and opening the door for fascists to win political power.

Thankfully most of you will be out of the job in 12 months or less, but those of us on the true left will face the task of tackling the far-right while sacked MPs count their pay-off fee.

Congratulations and thank you

It’s true!

After it got under way, Charles Clark, a former home secretary, Slough MP Fiona McTaggart and Glasgow South’s Tom Harris told the prime minister he should quit

Good for you, Tom!

Not that it’ll make much difference whether Brown stays or goes. Because, given their miserable performance over the past few days, clearly neither Alan Johnson nor David Miliband are worthy leaders.

Perhaps you might stand for the job yourself? You at least have a good chance of still having a seat after the next General Election.

Some direct answers please, Tom.
Who do you think should lead the party?
How long do you think they would have before they would have to call an election?

Damn. It no all waiting until Ian Gibson’s seat; then the Speakers; then the conferences.

Look, I hope Mandelson succeeds, although, God knows, he only has a one for three hit rate so far.

Tom

is it true did you talk against Gordon brown(Andy Sparrow says) and what did you say?

come on out with it

Jack, I’m sorry but you really are talking nonsense. Those attacking Brown aren’t particularly representing anything other than their original loyalty towards Blair. So do tell me, exactly what does that have to do with anything current associated with policy? They supported Brown’s appointment at the time: some of them even made statements of support in the last week before changing their stories after resigning. A number behaved like children and at least one – Blears – went still refusing to admit she was in the wrong in seeking to evade Capital Gains Tax. So please, let’s calm down. Many went because they were going to get sacked! There was a plot Jack, that much is established now. They used the bedlam of recent weeks to mount an attack on their own leader. That is lower than a snake’s belly. As for smears, have you gone deaf in recent days? They each wandered out armed to the teeth with smears about Brown. One in particular changed her entire view of him within 24 hours for God’s sake! So who is lying? Do you call Blears, Flint and the rest representives of honesty and transparency?

The man who was at “the very rottenness at the core” was Blair! He was the one publicly exposed as a liar remember? And under oath too!

The European results prove a number of things Jack but the main one is that Labour’s vote stayed at home and nothing about that proves they stayed home because of Brown. In recent weeks every single political party has been caught up in expenses issues that beggar belief and which have shocked all of us: sickened us even. The current war going on within Labour isn’t even about policy for God’s sake. Its extremely personal which makes what they are doing even worse in my opinion. The Tories haven’t got a policy to their name and here we have people within Labour trying to assassinate their own leader. You really couldn’t make it up!

For a lot of Labour people it is fine to say what you think Jack but it isn’t all right to take the taxpayer for a mug and it is even less all right to plot the downfall of a Party leader and help a Tory government to get elected! I think that’s why so many stayed home. They were revulsed by what they saw Blairites doing and disgusted that they were using current circumstances to forward their own agenda. They are I would say, absolutely furious at the whole Blairite/Brownite nonsense and have had enough of it. And no wonder.

Just watching you on Sky now.

Select quotes from your interview…

“We feel genuinely that we are heading towards a situation where there is a Cameron-led government”

“If I had said nothing I couldn’t have lived with myself”

“This is a view I have held for some time now”

“My preference is for Gordon Brown to go voluntarily.”

“After the results yesterday…his position is untenable”.

“For Gordon (and his supporters) to suggest that everything is fine is baffling”

I’ve always got on well with Gordon Brown…this isn’t a personal criticism of him”

“If we want a labour government to continue, don’t we have a responsibility to speak out about the one thing that will prevent a victory”

“I don’t think he (gordon) will lead the party into the next election”

“If I were a betting man I would bet on someone else”

One must despair at the vrtual total lack of courage in the PLP. By comparison you must be finding it difficult to walk with a pair so big.;-)

Hi Tom

just seen you on BBC news 24; Top marks for being honest and saying what you did.

sadly pretty accurate appraisal of the situation.

The situation is sad, but i know many ex labour voters in South Wales who think Brown isnt just a poor leader but is now something of a joke and these people are not going to vote for Labour with GB as leader.

Barry Sherman made a fool of himself when he came out and at first said he wasnt going to discuss what he had said in the meeting.

Sad day for many MPs for this was the day when the very last chance of giving the party a chance of winning the next election and saving their seats. Many good colleagues will loose their seats next May because of tonight

We’re all proud of you Tom. Well, quite a few of us anyway.

I’ve just heard, for the first time, the term ‘climate change denier’ used on C4 news. Someone mentioned that on an earlier thread. Surely not I thought. Oh, but surely.

Maybe that makes our own Stewart an ‘evolution-denier’, me a ‘God-denier’, many of us ‘Gordon is great deniers’, and so on. The possibilities are many. All linked by usage to fascists. There’s a word for that: fascism.

Interesting how language, er, evolves.

You can watch the video on the scrolly blog thing on the skynews.com website…

Tom

First post after following you for a long time.

I’m a party member (in Hazel’s constituency and I think she should stand down) although not exactly an activist.

There were so many positives in the Euro results, not just the Greens getting more votes than the BNP. The single biggest learning point is that there is clearly a huge appetite and enthusiasm for multi-party politics. Sticking with First Past the Post for Westminster and English Councils is starting to look like 405 line Black and White TV – you can have the Tory Channel or the Labour Channel. But why should people stick with that when they have had a taste of the modern HD Digital equivalent and clearly relish making choices. Labour needs to learn that lesson and start working for a electoral change. I’ve signed up for Referendum 2010 and I think you should too.

Tosh, your interview with John Pienaar was comedy gold. Do make sure it’s available on here.

Field has called it right. Those in the PLP quote supporting unquote Captain Insensible are just making a rational (if entirely selfish) decision which they believe will preserve their salary and sundry baubles for as long as possible.

There can surely be not one of them who actually believes that the Captain is the right man for the job. Tell me there isn’t.

Me first, my party second, and you sorry lot who pay my salary, a distant last.

Congratulations.

Getting rid of Gordon won’t win the election – but it might save Labour.

The electorate aren’t fooled by all the spin and bollox. Felling Gordon will show people that there are people in Labour who are sane. That might save a small core of the party to fight another day.

@ Richard. Cheers for the quotes.

I’d say, to home in on one of them, that the position of the entire Labour Party is untenable after results over the weekend. I’d also say that the plotting shenanigans over the last week played a large part in making many thousands of Labour voters stay home, not to mention the fact that so many Labour people were up to their necks in dishonesty when info regarding expenses claims emerged. In Scotland the turnout was just 28%. I don’t know what the turnout was for the whole of the UK. But I do think they were punishing Labour, not Brown as an individual. And to suggest that if Brown just goes those who used current circumstances to bring him down and assist the Tories will be forgiven by the next election is, in my view, a tad optimistic. Many Labour voters are incensed that the Blairites are willing to risk the possible destruction of the Party itself through their very personal war with Brown. Many will not forgive that.

Tom also appears to be saying that the plotting isn’t over yet and that is worrying indeed. “I don’t think Gordon will lead the party into the next election.” So the Blairites intend to keep up with this then and abandon the real issues of the day, such as the economy and parliamentary reform, in order to continue with their war against Brown? I would love to know where daily politics fits in on their agenda and working together towards the recovery of our economy. I guess that isn’t very important

Well done Tom, you showed cojones. I applaud you.

I think Jeremy Corbyn put it best – Brown is on probation now. He has got to deliver on what the Labour Party should deliver on though – social policy, housing, cancelling Trident, abandoning the privatisation of the Post Office.

I hope he does.

Best interview of the night – the double act of John McFall and Ed Balls. On the one hand a man who spoke sense and was fair and reasoned. On the other hand Ed Balls with his grotesque lie that he hates the politics of smear.

That was when I knew that it was all balls and there will be no change.

McFall should be a cabinet minister. Balls should crawl back under wherever he came from. The old politics of McFall and the new of Balls. Is it any wonder at the verdict delivered last night?

Brown should go and someone of integrity and principle should take over. Labour should fight on what it stands for, on why it was elected. In addition kill the corrupt PFI policy and reverse the apalling intrusion on civil liberties.

@ Trinityboy
“Labour needs to learn that lesson and start working for a electoral change. I’ve signed up for Referendum 2010 and I think you should too.”

Waste of time. Given the likelihood is that the Conservatives are going to be in power within 8(ish) months there is little, if any, chance that Labour can push through sweeping constitutional changes to the electoral system without the agreement of the Conservatives (who are dead-set against the idea).

@Jo

Hi Jo

I don’t think it is me that needs to calm down, from some of your posts over the last few days!!

Anyway, thanks for replying to my post. I agree that as good a politician as Blair was, I do happen to agree with your view of him. I also note his expenses claims were “accidentally” shredded. Hmmmm…

I do, however, disagree with your analysis of the current situation. Maybe we are from different parts of the country and we hear different things from the people around us in our constituencies and therefore imagine a different mood in the country and therefore have different perspectives on things as they stand? Maybe…maybe not…I don’t know.

I do, however, honestly believe Brown is the wrong person as Prime Minister and conducts his politics in a despicable manner (from what I can gather he admitted as much at the PLP meet tonight)and is pursuing the wrong policies (see my post about Corbyn above).

For the record I am not a Blairite and neither do I think Johnson or Milliband should take over.

I do think Brown will destroy the Labour at the next election though.

I still can’t work out the exact reasons why so many think that a Conservative victory would be so bad.(Unless you’re a deposed Labour MP of course, or a rabid tribalist.)

It’s New Labour under another name.

Certainly, I’d prefer the original. But since olden Labour seems desperate to remove all traces of the Blairite strain, it’ll surely do for a term or two, while Labour make themselves electable under an inspiring, new leader.

Or split apart and start again.

[...] Tom Harris, who last night was one of a handful of members to speak out against the Prime Minister, does a nice line in stunned surprise. “The Conservatives beat Labour in the the popular vote in Wales (and no number of exclamation [...]