IT’S THE Holy Grail of UK election coverage: whispered of, speculated about, but never actually achieved.
But today, the prospect of the first ever live leaders’ debate during a general election has moved a step closer, with none other than Peter Mandelson telling The Evening Standard:
I don’t think Gordon would have a problem with that. While Cameron is good with words, he doesn’t have the ideas or policies to back them. I think people would see through the smile. The more the public sees of them, the more they’d realise that Gordon is the man with the substance.
Generally, the Leader of the Opposition’s challenge to the Prime Minister to a US-style televised debate is a much-loved and quaint tradition of British electoral politics. And traditionally, the PM turns down the request, as John Major did in 1992. But five years later, it was Major who turned the tables on Tony Blair, by challenging the Leader of the Opposition to such a debate, which Blair declined.
It would certainly make good television this time round, but there’s one possible fly in the ointment: Nick Clegg. A two-way debate could indeed be a thrilling spectacle as the two party leaders battle across the rostrums, each pressing the case for his party in a career-defining confrontation. What a pity, then, to have to interrupt the flow of debate by turning with a resigned sigh every few minutes to Nick as he wrings his hands in pious anguish and prepares to lambast the leaders of the main parties with accusations of playing “Punch and Judy politics” and suchlike.
No, by all means let Nick have a separate debate with Harriet and Hague or whoever — televise it, even. But let’s not ruin a perfectly good fight between the two biggest boys in the playground by allowing the president of the sixth form debating society to get in the way. He’d only get his dinner money stolen anyway.














Wednesday 29 July 2009 at 12:44 pm
If you ever get bored with being an MP, I see a bright future for you as a political sketchwriter – incisve but deeply humourous.
BTW, loved your West Ham tweet @iaindale!
Wednesday 29 July 2009 at 12:58 pm
It would have been interesting in the days when there were policy differences between the two main parties.
Since there are none, the prizes would go to the most personable and attractive personality.
Bye, Gordon.
Wednesday 29 July 2009 at 1:03 pm
Why just Brown vs Cameron?
Never mind threeway with Clegg – lets make it fourway and include Farage. At least that way we would get some commonsense into the debate!
Wednesday 29 July 2009 at 1:08 pm
Farage would at least provide a policy alternative. And if he managed to control his slightly hectoring manner, could make real inroads with his bright and breezy persona and considerable public support.
But his party will never be seen as a prospect for government.
And that’s the reality of it.
Wednesday 29 July 2009 at 1:27 pm
It’ll never happen.
Gordon Brown’s people are deathly afraid he’ll lose even more votes, Cameron’s people will argue that there’s no need for him to take the risk and there’s no way Lab + Con will be able to agree on a format that suits both leaders anyway.
A head-to-head debate would be wonderful but we all know that Gordon has no knack for answering questions and DC is mortified at the idea of making Brown look like a sympathetic character by beating him in a debate.
-=-=-
What I find more interesting is that Mandelson thinks that that the mere suggestion of a Leader’s debate (something the Conservatives have argued for for more than a decade) will benefit Labour.
Wednesday 29 July 2009 at 2:02 pm
The real danger of a TV debate would surely be that everyone expects Cameron to win it hands down. If Brown emerged from it with any credit at all, it would be seen as a ‘loss’ for Cameron.
Still, I’d like to see it all the same. A proper hour/hour and a half long debate so that they can’t just bluster like they do at PMQs.
Wednesday 29 July 2009 at 2:47 pm
Brown will never do it, mark my words. He cannot defend what he has done. He has always bottled out of this sort of thing. He is not a man but a mouse.
Wednesday 29 July 2009 at 2:50 pm
oh what that would be! can u really imagine gb doing this! i think naughty mandy is just trying to make gb look tough! watched his interview with nick robinson on newsnight last night and boy when he gets asked a question he doesnt like he doesnt half get narky! mark my words tom, mandy is going to be your new leader and his lapse at the end of the interview when he nearly began to salivate at the thought of being the leader gave it all away!
he loves it when his vanity is stroked!
i think the best thing to do is do whats best for the country and that is for you guys to get rid of the two of them and find someone who genuinely cares about your party but more importantly the country itself.
i think these two are just career politicans hell bent on power and heck to those who get in their way!
any thoughts of you becoming the next pm tom?
Wednesday 29 July 2009 at 2:53 pm
oh well thats put an end to that then!
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article6731755.ece
Wednesday 29 July 2009 at 3:03 pm
@simond – Sorry, what was that, Si? I was busy salivating…
Wednesday 29 July 2009 at 3:07 pm
Put Clegg on as the warm up act.. although this might make everyone turn off… hmm
Wednesday 29 July 2009 at 3:10 pm
@ A Different Matt.
Agreed. There’s no upside for the Conservatives to agree to a debate with the expectations already set.
We already know what’ll happen because we already see a live “leaders debate” every single week at PMQs; GB will spout tractor production statistics, DC will use his superior debating skills to goad Brown into saying something stupid and Clegg will look irrelevant in the middle.
GB would have to literally fall over and punch himself in the mouth in order to look any worse whereas even the slightest mis-speaking by DC would lose him the hard won votes that he’s already got in the bag…
Wednesday 29 July 2009 at 3:11 pm
This is presumably of a piece with your anti-PR ravings. Politics might be better for Labour and Tory hacks if it was a complete two-party zone, but it’d be hard to imagine a worse state of affairs for the public and the country.
Not that Nick Clegg is a sensible answer to any political question worth asking.
Wednesday 29 July 2009 at 3:13 pm
While it is easy to Dismiss Nick Clegg at the moment, what will the opinion be when the Libs get the second highest percentage of the popular vote (although nowhere near Lab or Con in terms of seats)?
I actually don’t care that the Libs have no chance of winning, surely a debate should be about ideas (even Lib ones) and that would stop GB and DC from simply going over their minor disagreements and avoiding the bigger questions.
Wednesday 29 July 2009 at 4:03 pm
Hmm. I think up to now Dave has deliberately not finished Gordon off in PMQs, I get the impression he could have at any point, but doesn’t as he correctly sees GB as the Tories greatest electoral asset.
If this debate were in the run up to an election, I’m not sure there would be any reason for Dave not to rip Gordon a new one.
Knowing how much courage Gordon has, I’d be willing to bet quite a lot of money that this will not happen. Anyone give me decent odds?
Z.
Wednesday 29 July 2009 at 4:11 pm
Two heads would certainly be better than one, and since The Crashmeister is determined to remain esconced in the bunker ’til election day, perhaps Cameron and Clegg should have the debate. After all, Brown is pretty irrelevant to the future of the UK in any case, isn’t he Tom? ( “We can win the next election, but only if we have a new leader.”)
Or maybe you think Meddlesome should be the one representing the New Labour corner?
Wednesday 29 July 2009 at 4:11 pm
Is the suggestion perhaps being floated in the hope that the tories will accept it expecting to face Brown, and then be unable to back out when Mandy dumps Brown in favour of someone like Johnson who can actually connect with voters.
Wednesday 29 July 2009 at 4:32 pm
“But let’s not ruin a perfectly good fight between the two biggest boys in the playground”
2009 local elections – tory – 38%, Lib Dem – 28%, Labour – 23%
2009 european election – tory – 27.7%, UKIP – 16.5%, Labour – 15.7%, Lib Dem – 13.7%
Not much of a fighter…
Wednesday 29 July 2009 at 4:43 pm
panick over, Brown has bottled it!
Wednesday 29 July 2009 at 4:57 pm
Unlikely as it may at first seem I think Mandy may get Brown to go head to head with Cameron on the box. Mandy knows that Gordon hasn’t got anything to lose and it’s always possible that Cammo might drop a clanger.
Wednesday 29 July 2009 at 5:08 pm
@Nick
In terms of popular vote yes, but in terms of seats (which is all that counts no matter how much everyone bleats) no. there is only Labour and Conservative. I believe that Rizzla are developing an new extra fine cigarette paper than you can fit between them.
A TV debate of this kind will be of interest to apparatchiks and few others. I still think that the main parties need to get out and engage if only to prevent the extreme right getting more of a toe hold.
I will now make my predictions for the next general election:
1) It will be the lowest turnout in %age terms EVER by some margin.
Wednesday 29 July 2009 at 5:13 pm
Labour : What Is To Be Done? See -
http://dronfieldblather.blogspot.com/2009/07/labour-what-is-to-be-done.html
Wednesday 29 July 2009 at 5:49 pm
Well, if you’d posted something I agreed with twice in one day I would have been very worried.
Wednesday 29 July 2009 at 6:27 pm
@ Perry Neeham
“Unlikely as it may at first seem I think Mandy may get Brown to go head to head with Cameron on the box”
I think this is just the latest in a series of nonsense ideas run up the metaphorical flagpole (like reform of the electoral system, reform of party finances) to see if anyone salutes.
Wednesday 29 July 2009 at 6:51 pm
Why don’t we just have Clegg duke it out with Brown on live TV; in a battle to secure third place?
Wednesday 29 July 2009 at 8:44 pm
Big Al
I understand the debate will have an audience comprising people, i.e. the electorate. I’m not sure what ’seats’ have got to do with that.
Nick Clegg may be a ‘Fly in the Ointment’, but this sort of thing would really make Brown look like a lightweight. How about dumping Clegg and Brown, and getting Cable and Mandy on the show. Now that would be interesting.
Wednesday 29 July 2009 at 10:18 pm
@ Andrew BOD
Notwithstanding that it’ll never happen, the content of such a debate would be tedious and mind-numbing, hardly the hellfire of political thrust and parry you might otherwise expect…
Thursday 30 July 2009 at 12:35 am
Dear Tom – I live in a parliamentary democracy in which I get to vote for my choice of local MP, and the party with the most MP’s is invited by Her Majesty to form a government. I also live in a parliamentary democracy where most elected MPs follow the “whip” and do what they’re told by the leader of the party in parliament who has been chosen in advance and who I don’t get to vote for. This same leader gets to appoint all his mates and failed MPs- sorry, respected members of the community – to the house of lords where they sit, and “scrutinize” legislation. Me, I would love to see a debate between Brown and Cameron. Followed by a reform in which we, the British people, got to choose our leaders. Now: the failure of New Labour to achieve that: that’s a subject worthy of satire!
Thursday 30 July 2009 at 7:13 am
A full third of the electorate likely won’t be voting for either of your two ‘debaters’, Tom. That means they want to use their vote for something other than backing the next party of government. Of course you think they’re wrong to do so, but it’s not your decision, it’s theirs, and you have no business trying to exclude them from the debate.
It must be very irritating when voters don’t behave how politicians (who know best) think they should.
Thursday 30 July 2009 at 11:23 am
Hi Tom
I would hope that any debate is on the radio and not television. That way Prime Minister Nixon Brown has a chance of winning.
As for the Liberals, maybe they can play in Television Centre’s car park whilst the adults debate?
Anyway have a nice day. Me and the kids are off to throw rocks at wind turbines in Northumbria.
Love
Mo
PS It would make your blog easier on the eye if you blocked comments that mentioned the Liberals.
Thursday 30 July 2009 at 11:32 am
Very amusing piece and perceptive regarding the predictable three-way dullness, if Clegg was involved.
I wondered with Mandy’s “I don’t think Gordon would have a problem” etc., whether some mischief lurked therein.
Though unlikely, was Brown bounced by his friend or had permission been given?
If you tell me I won’t snitch, promise.
Thursday 30 July 2009 at 10:30 pm
Captain Insensible would be a dream in a televised debate.
Expect lots of zappy one-liners.
Like that one when the (already announced) decision to cut our ’strength’ in Iraq from 5,500 to 4,500 transmogrified into, ‘A thousand troops home by Christmas’.
Of the thousand, five hundred were already home or in the middle of redeployment to Afghanistan, while the other five hundred hadn’t even gone to Iraq.
A televised debate would see Labour drop from 17% in the polls to about 1%.
Even Mandelson could see that.
Friday 31 July 2009 at 3:16 am
Such a debate between the leaders of the two primary parties would be nothing other than a ‘beauty contest’. It might be fun, but would be irrelevent. In fact, it might be actually damaging to our ‘body politic’ in that it might trivialise the serious matter of the future of our people (note, our PEOPLE, not our country).
The problems confronting our people are many and complex and are not to be solved by a couple of hours of waffle on the TV.
The only good thing that could possibly come out of such a debate would be A GREATER INTEREST IN POLITICS in the general population. However, this particular method of inculcating an interest in politics is very dubious since it reflects the importance of politics at the least relevent level, ie, personalities and prettiness.
If MPs REALLY want to involve the people in politics, they should ensure that the subject is part of school’s curriculum – even, in a simple way, starting at the most junior level.
Tuesday 6 October 2009 at 6:52 pm
[...] example, after much mischief making by Tory and Labour bloggers alike over whether Nick Clegg should be included in all the TV debates that now look [...]
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