And another thing…

Honest? Principled?

Perhaps someone attending the X-Factor primary might care to ask Mr Dale how, as an ‘honest and principled’ man, he can reconcile the following statements written on his blog, two weeks apart:

‘I have several friends who suffer from depression from time to time. Life is often lived on the edge. They just don’t know when the black dog is going to strike. If our Prime Minister is indeed suffering in this way he deserves our compassion, not insults.’ (11 Sept)

‘The PM’s state of health is a legitimate matter for concern. Marr has heard the same rumours as the rest of us and clearly felt there was a possibility that the rumours might have some validity. Unfortunately the Prime Minister’s behaviour throughout the interview would have done nothing to dispel the rumours.’ (27 Sept)

Paul – I also said he’s wrong on just about everything.

“Iain Dale built the template for serious political blogging in the UK”

You mean he used words then put them on some free blogging software? Yeah real innovation…

As a Labour MP, why would you want someone to be elected who would be “an asset to the Parliamentary Conservative Pary”? That’s surely only a good thing if you’re a Tory?

Nice one Tom. OT: Do you think it is too late for Gordon Brown to promise to sort out antisocial behaviour? Won’t the public think that if Labour haven’t done anything yet, then why should we trust them to sort it out now?

I will tell you now that blaming the parents is the wrong path to take. Your party has cultivated a society were kids can do as they like and the police, schools and parents have no power to control them.

I know from experience. One of my daughters went off the rails. When I tried to ground her for taking drugs at the age of fourteen she left home. She went to stay at the house of a known drug user. I couldn’t get her out of that house. The police would not get her out of that house and the social services said they would send someone around to check on her in 28 days. I was totally powerless to protect my child.

I ended up in hospital with suspected heart attack from the stress. Luckily she came back home after two weeks of her own accord.

When kids can break their asbos up to twenty times without any punishment, how do you expect to control them? Issuing an asbo is like buying a guard dog with no teeth. Kids should be aware that if they break their asbos they will do time. Zero tolerance works – ask the citizens of New York.

@ Paul.

Umm, actually, I don’t see where there is a contradiction between the two statements.

I think the health of the PM is a valid question to ask even if just off rumour – compare with the US system where medical records of even potential leaders of parties are open to scrutiny.

If you hold one of the top jobs in the land then your health can not be a secret any longer. AND I don’t have an issue with people asking the Tory leader about his smoking habits, nor the Lib leader about alcohol.

HOWEVER, that doesn’t mean you kick someone when they are down and have a condition. You can empathise (even if that means they can’t to the job any longer on the grounds of ill health.)

Ah I see! Fair enough. In my constituency the Tories are doing the same. I’m going to vote for the most obvious idiot in order to help the excellent Labour candidate, Nancy Platts.

@Paul

So Iain says that if the PM if suffering from depression he deserves our compassion (true) and also says that the state of his health is a legitimate matter of concern (true).

I’m sorry but I’m struggling to understand your point on how those two statements are mutually exclusive.

I’m sure Iain will appreciate your support. I’m also sure the people of Bracknell will make up their own minds – particularly when it comes to the General Election.

Do you seriously think Labour has a chance in taking ANY seats off the Conservatives in the South? Labour will be lucky to hang on to a few of the ones they currently hold – with the possible exception of a few in the ‘deprived’ areas of London.

I agree with your comment regarding Iain Dale. I hope he is successful as it is possible to support a political party yet admire other politicians. I could provide a list of MPs I admire and they are from all parties. I often wondered what I would have done if I had lived in a constituency where someone like Ken Clarke stood against someone like John McDonnell. I have never been tested in this way – thank goodness. It would have been a test though and I am not sure now whether loyalty to a political party is as important as what one thinks about a local candidate. I blame the current leadership of the party for putting these doubts in my mind…….

@Triffid @Paul W

Perhaps I should have been clearer.

Dale shows a lack of ‘principle’ because in statement 1 he says Brown should not be insulted, and in statement 2 he insults him.

Sorry Paul but I can’t see any insult – definitely not one that proves Iain is unprincipled.

If instead Iain had blogged the particularly distasteful video that’s currently on Guido’s site, then in my view you would have had a point.

Well said Tom; but this former Labour voter of over three decades will never vote Labour again after the past twelve years. Still ashamed of voting for Blair in 1997; had I known then what I know now, I wouldn’t have. Sadly I didn’t.

Good luck to Iain. Both he and his fellow candidates are impressive. But it’s a very strange thing that the Tory party can attract high calibre candidates at this level, when the chaps at the top are so stunningly mediocre. Frankly, I wouldn’t trust Dave and George to run a burger van. There’s something of the ‘lions led by donkeys’ (if you remember World War I history) about this.

I think the guy who’s a doctor is going to impress the voters the most, and the lady who’s a financial journalist the least – simply by the esteem that their particular jobs are held in.

Incidentally, a former colleague of mine came from Bracknell – and she couldn’t stand the place. She said it had been used by early 60s town planners as a dry run for Milton Keynes. What failed in Bracknell would be used as an object lesson for planning better stuff for MK.

She remembered it as first and foremost a road system, with houses built round it – no community, no history, full of desperate housewives on valium. But that was just her opinion. Maybe it’s quite nice these days.

Just a thought,

Labour have been in power for 12 years. If they could not show the country that their policies were relevant and effective in that time how can you expect a single conference and 6 months of change convince us?

If you had done a decent job over the past 12 years (enabled liberties, enabled consistent growth and regulated financial services enough to avoid the current crisis) then you would be sailing into the sunset in the polls.

And don’t say no-one saw the crash comeing, many people did but they were ignored by everyone else who wanted to believe the good times could continue forever.

The New Labour project had its chance, but it has become like the old Tory party, mired in sleaze, corruption and incompetence. Not that the New Tories will be any better after a few years in power, but at least things will change initially.

The best result may be to have a hung parliament where the lib dems may actually get to have a couple of their policies accepted to gain their support (not too many though!) to allow Lab/Tories to form a government. Unless some of the minority parties gain some seats and could potentially hold the balance of power…

Tom,

It’s comments like that about Iain Dale that reaffirm my thought that you are one of the good guys in the Labour Party (not that I think there are that many but probably about equal to the number of good guys in the Tory Party)and the reason why I like to blog at your excellent site amongst others.

BTW I hope you are happy to hear that I have recently been defending you on the Liberal Conspiracy site run by Sunny Hundal – I have to say that Sunny does tend to lose the plot and abuse all and sundry if they happen to disagree with him.
It’s much calmer here.

Keep well Tom and I hope your enjoying the Conference from afar – probably the best way to view it!

@ Paul
unfortunately the only policy the libdems really care about is the one that makes it more likely that there will be more hung parliaments.

Neither Labour or the Conservatives could possibly be stupid enough to implement an AV system of voting just to secure a minority government.

Tories voting at a golf club? Shurely shome mishtake?

New Labour, Old Tory – plus ça change.
(New Labour, I suppose, is slightly more Thatcherite than the Tories).

Tom. You realy are a human being despite being in the Labour party. I have never met Iain but most of your sentiments are correct I think except about him being wrong about everything.
There is much good will on the centre ground but it never ammounts to anything.
I hope he does well he deserves to despite being soft right.

I would vote for Iain Dale if I could, for the reasons you give. Actually, he is not wrong on quite a few issues! Particularly his stand on abortion and his support for Frank Field and Nadine Dorries – which is not a popular position to hold or an easy one.

I suppose I should be astonished though, that you have come out in support of a Tory. Are you on medication? Or are you the beginning of a revolution in non-tribal politics?

I keep agreeing with Sgt Plodder, whoever he is, but I too voted Labour in 1997 and regretted it fairly soon after.

Going back to bucking the party line, I wonder how the Iraq war “debate” would have gone if MPs had not voted tribally?

Tom,

Any comment about the GDP figures? Seems those green shoots of recovery have withered and died.

Still, as you blogged, bankers feel happy so that’s OK then.

I’m waiting on baited breath to hear the thoughts of Beloved Leader. I’m sure I shall be inspired.

Wrinkled Weasel.

I am suprised at you. Do you not know you can only ask Tories if they are on drugs or medication. You are not allowed to ask Labour people this question. You must have forgotton they are part of the ruling elite and you must not do this again, as Mr Brown has said he is going to crack down on people who mis behave.

You have been warned.

Boudicca.

You said

“with the possible exception of a few in the ‘deprived’ areas of London”

Did you not mean depraved. ?

Why you should vote Tory – Tom askes.

Answer. Watch Browns speech

People will judge Labour on what they have actiually done. Not on what they say they are going to do.

Hmmm

“Frankly, I wouldn’t trust Dave and George to run a burger van”

Well , unfortunately , the burger van is on its last legs, some failed accountant (G.Brown I think his name was) crashed it on the A4 and the mechanic has said that all the good parts have been sold on Ebay for a knockdown price. The lads will be lucky to get four wheels and the spare tyre to work with , and they’ll have to carry on paying the insurance premiums for the next 20 years. The accountant is about to do a runner to Brussels with the remaining profits and its looking pretty bleak for the burger van business..

[...] UPDATE: Iain Dale sets out his stall here, while Labour M.P. and fellow blogger Tom Harris gives a surprise endorsement here. [...]

Having gone through the thoughts of Chairman Brown you have to say “Well, that sucked. Big time.”

He didn’t really promise a referendum on PR, did he ?

He’s now saying that whilst it was a manifesto commitment in 1997 he now will let us decide (again).

Although he won’t. He’ll change the name and call it “Representation Proportional” or something and claim it’s completely different.

Hi Tom,

Not criticism, but a serious question from someone who’s a Labour Party member, who has seen friends stand for election as candidates from other parties, often against Labour candidates -

How would you respond to those who say your praising Iain Dale like this could be seen as a stab in the back for the Labour PPC in Bracknell if he’s the Tory candidate at the General election?

I know the Labour candidate probably has next to no chance of winning that seat, but a good Labour turnout is still needed if there’s local council elections on the same day, and to add to Labour’s popular vote.

Although you’ve said Vote Labour on election day, couldn’t your enthusiastic endorsement for a Tory peel away Labour votes at the election?

Thanks.

“How would you respond to those who say your praising Iain Dale like this could be seen as a stab in the back for the Labour PPC in Bracknell if he’s the Tory candidate at the General election?”

I would say I understand why that’s being said, but I disagree. Open primaries or caucuses are open to anyone, and I see no reason why Labour Party members shouldn’t go along and participate. Having done that, is it so wrong for that party member publicly to express a preference on who the Tory candidate should be? Or should we impose some kind of unworkable and undemocratic “omerta”?

I don’t think it endears politicians to the public when they claim that every candidate and member of every other party is somehow unfit for office or depraved or whatever.

Endorsing someone against other Tory candidates is entirely different from endorsing them against a Labour candidate, and I expect our candidate in Bracknell (who I would love to win the seat) would agree.

Joe: “Although you’ve said Vote Labour on election day, couldn’t your enthusiastic endorsement for a Tory peel away Labour votes at the election?”

I promise to do a check but I’m pretty certain you have to be an adult to vote. Don’t worry, not everyone in the country is a sheep. Shocking as it may seem, some of us actually think for ourselves. We even dress ourselves and make our own breakfast !

Joes attitude

Another reason not to support Labour.

I think we should think about joining The T.H.P.

T.H.P. =

THE TOM HARRIS PARTY.

Every cloud has a silver lining and Tom is one of them.

If the Labour party took a lead from Toms attitude ( as they will have to). They may get somewhere again. If they move further back to the left they are finished.

I see Brown speech is being called Gulags for Slags. Is this BNP policy as well.

I am sure Ian Dale will be delighted with your clearly heartfelt endorsement. However as a Conservative voter it is not a position I can support.

He is, for the reasons you describe, a pioneering and excellent blogger. However there was a dramtic swing against him when he stood for election in Norfolk which has probably made the seat very difficult for the Conservatives to now take.

I don’t know what the labour party’s views on such issues is but my feeling is that selected candidates should either be wholly new or those who have proven themselves by previously obtaining a resaonably favourable election result, by which I mean a swing in their favour not neccesarily outright victory.

The fact that MacKay has been Bracknell’s MP since 1983 and has never lived here was one of the most controversial revelations when he was under the spotlight (even though it was known to most people who were involved locally).

I think the idea of a local candidate will be extremely important in this primary (even though the venue, has been shifted over in the boundary changes, and will sit in the Windsor Constituency). Dale may find this fact impossible to overcome.

Incidentally, Labour’s PPC John Piasecki, is a long term Bracknell resident.

I hardly think we need yet another reason to vote Conservative.

Maybe a little more concern over why people aren’t going to vote Labour might be in order. Hint, it isn’t just about Gordon.

[...] business, especially when it is conducted over the blogosphere. So I was very touched to read Tom Harris’s post of support for me in Bracknell. It’s all the more important as it is an Open Primary which supporters of other [...]

To be fair to Iain Dale he was very complementary about the Lib Dem MP Lynne Featherstone’s handling of the Baby P case and apologised publicly in his blog to the constituency’s Conservative Party.

Perhaps this idea for a number of commentators here is to list candidates of parties who you would vote for even if they are not your natural party. As a Tory here are mine:

Tom Harris: shameless obsequiousness
Kerry McCarthy: comes across as a really nice person and the first MP to write me a private email
Dennis Skinner: a man I won’t find one thing to agree with, but total integrity and conviction
Baron (Jack) Ashley of Stoke: the deaf MP
Vince Cable: knows his onions
Lembit Opik: genuine liberal
Greg Mullholland: genuine liberal
Nigel Farage: great company
Gerrard Batten: UKIP MEP my local MEP who I keep bumping into in the Leytonstone Tesco.

Dave – with respect, all you’ll end up with is a list of people willing to vote against the whip for what they believe.

Don’t get me wrong, I find the MP’s who only vote as directed by their party Tom to completely misunderstand what the Commons should be about.

Easiest way to find out though is to look at the voting record on the truly objectionable bills that went through the house eg, banning of peaceful protest, ID cards, 90 days imprisonment etc.

Don’t agree. Bracknell is a horrid place mind . . . even without Broadmoor.

If Iain Dale wants to stand again he would better choose a seaside resort imho, goes better with his temperament than the UK’s silicon valley.

Oh, and this “Open [primary” may not be the fiddles B Johnson’s one in London and the Totnes one were:

http://quietzapple-musing.blogspot.com/2009/08/open-primary-by-post-in-totnes.html

http://quietzapple-musing.blogspot.com/2009/08/tory-tactics-in-totnes-open-primary.html