And Another Thing…

Personnaly, I fail to see the point, given that it would be in force by then, but I would welcome a multiple choice along these lines.

Exit EU
Exit EU, join free trade area,
Status Quo,
Join Euro and promote further integration.
Promote further integration.

Let us rank then 1 to five first to 50% wins, and the issue is setted for a generation. Have the debate.

Unlike your party which promises “yes” to get people to vote for them, and then does “no”.

And labour promised a referendum but didn’t give one lets start with that question instead ??? -

Just like the country had a right to know Labour’s position on a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty/EU Constitution. They did until the Government reneged on their promise because they knew it was a fight they couldn’t win!

Will Gordon Brown give us the referendum promised in your manifesto. YES or NO? Simple question.

If Cameron does hold a referendum and the country votes YES, will he force more one on us until we vote NO?

YES or NO? simple question.

If Cameron doesn’t hold a referendum, is he more likely to represent the country’s wishes in Europe better than Brown? YES or NO? simple question.

Does Cameron support Tony Blair to be EU President (as Brown does). YES or NO? simple question.

DC’s position is quite clear, you can’t make policy based on a hypothetical scenario.

Having said that, on balance i’d guess the answer will be yes, followed by a national debate on whether we should be staying in the EU.

You’re almost wilfully trying to force him into an ‘in or out’ referendum on EU membership that the ‘out’ camp will probably win. How on earth do you see this as working to Labour’s advantage?

Do voters in the UK feel that Gordon Brown has cheated them out of a referendum? YES or NO? simple question.

Shut up and wait and see what the nice man does you for, Tom.

Would a majority of UK voters vote YES or NO? simple question.

Has Gordon Brown taken the country into further integration with the EU against the majority’s wishes? YES or NO? simple question.

Is there an echo in here?

Jay (on the other thread) noticed Cameron slip up -

Marr said that Cameron seemed to be promising a referendum but not really promising a referendum, to which Cameron replied that he couldn’t have expressed it more clearly himself…

I saw the tail-end of that interview, and have to say Marr has redeemed himself somewhat in my view. It’s a relief to see Cameron getting some tough questioning for a change – he’s had far too much of an easy ride from the media recently.

Will this save Labour from losing the General Election ……?

Aunty Flo: apparently most British people, if you trace their family trees back far enough, can find a connection with the 11th century King Stephen.

Interestingly, both Obama and George W Bush can trace their ancestors back to Cambridgeshire bumpkins (this is my neck of the woods). Two villages (Sawston and Fenstanton), 20 miles apart, but they produce two American presidents in a row. It’s a conspiracy, I tell you!

I meant to put that in the other thread – sorry.

Polling suggests a majority in this country against the Lisbon treaty.

Cameron’s view on the referendum, though undeniably slippery, can therefore be said to represent the will of the majority of the British people.

This doesn’t make it right, of course, but it certainly justifies holding the referendum.

Governments only renege on referendums they know they cannot win.

That’s what ours did, you’ll remember.

Tom,

I don’t think this subject is the best one for any Labour MP to get on their high horse about considering the failure to enact your own manifesto and the promises you gave to the country.

Will Labour do it’s manifesto if re-elected, Tom ?

Simple question, Tom; simple answer: yes or no?
The country has the right to know.

Tom

This is not a good road to go down for Labour. It will only remind everybody of your failed commitment to hold a referendum on the very same issue.

Better leave it to your friends in the media. (Andrew Marr – foe one week, friend the next.)

Perhaps Cameron has learned from your broken promise, and is therefore not prepared to chance a similar situation for his party. Quite intelligent really.

What do you think?

The answer is NO.

This is becasue YOU signed away our constitutional powers, which now have to won back.

Hers is a better question for you Tom, a fundamental part of British constitutional law is the principle that one parliament cannot bind the hands of its successors. Do you still believe in this principle tom? and therefore if yes should parliament have the final answer with matters related to British democracy?

For the Labour party to think they are on to winner after telling a blatant lie to the public in 2005, is not just brass neck, its bare faced arrogance, the very thing people are mad about you for.

Career politicians don’t do ‘yes’ or ‘no’, have we not learnt this much yet?

What’s up Tom? Worried that that post Westminster gravy train job in Brussels won’t be there for the taking?

The obvious solution is to vote for a party whose position on the Lisbon Treaty is crystal clear.

That way, it won’t matter what CMD says or does.

Is it really so difficult? NuLab/BluLab – spot the difference?

What do you think to Brown getting snubbed by Obama again? He he!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1217984/Humiliation-Gordon-Brown-US-plan-G4-elite-Britain.html?ITO=1490

Now that it looks like the Treaty will be ratified, Obama has custard pied Brown.

This new group of four Nations will have Tony Blair representing Europe. Brown will be sat outside with a bag of crisps and a bottle of pop.

Oh the sweet sweet irony! Brown forced the treaty on us, and now the saviour of the world is no longer required.

[...] good at answering any straight questions, here are just two of my favourite blog posts – Tom Harris on yes or no? Jeffis happy that Marr was equally aggressive with Cameron as he was with [...]

I know you’re just trying to get the boot into the Tories Tom, as good politicians do when they’re in a weak position, but still, perhaps your neck should be wound in somewhat here…

Labour’s the party that promised a referendum on Lisbon, and then failed to deliver it. Your own leader LIED to us on it.
It wouldn’t even be a matter for the Tories if you lot hadn’t betrayed the People like that…

Mind you, Labour don’t do referendum’s very well at all, since Bendy Wendy said we could have a referendum on independence here, but sadly that too is turning out to be a lie.
The Tories will be lucky to come fourth in your seat. A 32% swing from the 2005 results is a BIG ask, but it’s not infeasible that the voters will see sense and return an SNP candidate for Westminster next year…..

Yabbering away about whether the Tories will or won’t hold a referendum on a matter that you agreed you’d hold, then bottled, then the furore over an independence referendum that you may or may not agree with, dependent on prevailing winds…that might not go so well with the good burghers of Glasgow South.

Fair enough, I think, to have contempt for those who wanted a depression, hate my country so much they don’t consider how a US led “G4″ with the EuroZone represented would affect Britain’s interests.

Even the Mail has to admit that the UK under Brown/Darling’s Economic Leadership has punched well above its weight. They also claim GB has the fourth largest economy in the World, though to read the trolls and hacks most of the time you would think we were starving.

Always amusing when Tories try to pull Britain down, while their billionaire backers and media moguls grow fat abroad. Then they try to put a context to emphasise what they imagine to be a setback, which may or may not happen, and may or may not be desirable in any event . . .

Truth is ever a stranger to them.

Tom you have caused this problem by not giving us the promised referendum. So deal with that not Cameron who will deal with the issue one step at a time.

Labour promised a referendum on Lisbon constitution, not lisbon treaty. Of course some people think thats just Labour wriggling out of it, that it’s really just the same thing, but on a technical level they didn’t break their promise.

The most ironic thing about this is that all the people who would want to vote no in a referendum usually list reasons such as too much beaurocracy, lack of accountability etc., when the whole point of the lisbon constitution (and to a lesser degree the lisbon treaty) was to address these issues!

You’re right, it’s intolerable. This will push some people to declare UDI.

Tom, have you stopped beating your wife yet?
Answer Yes or No.

Is Dave (above) Peter Mandelson in disguise? Yes or definitely yes?

I think other posters have summed up the issue nicely.

The question is apposite, a Labour MP asking it is a sick joke.

Have you forgotten your last Manifesto?