I WAS NOT present in Westminster yesterday when the Kelly report was published. Fortunately. There aren’t many “big” parliamentary occasions that I’d be happy to miss but this was one of them.
And when I saw TV coverage of the Commons being told by Speaker Bercow that Sir Ian Kennedy, who is to chair the new Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority, is to receive an annual salary of at least £100,000, I fretted that my colleagues’ jeering response might not strike the right note with the watching electorate.
Which just goes to show how misleading TV coverage of the chamber can be. This afternoon I spoke with a colleague who had been present. He was utterly bemused and frustrated by media reports of the response, described by at least one journalist as “a derisive groan”. It was nothing of the sort, said my friend. Rather, the Speaker’s announcement was met with genuine hilarity and amusement, as if months of pent-up anger, fear and stress found voice in an odd kid of catharsis.
There was no jeering, no contempt, just a straightforward acknowledgement of the entertaining irony of Sir Ian being paid significantly more than an MP’s basic salary. But MPs’ reaction just had to be derisive in order to fit in with the media’s current narrative. A genuinely good-natured and humorous countenance doesn’t make good copy.
But I’m glad I wasn’t there to share in the joke.














Thursday 5 November 2009 at 9:08 pm
It fits in with MPs dreadful sense of self-entitlement, if you ask me. How much do you think you should be paid, Tom?
Thursday 5 November 2009 at 9:10 pm
Congratulations, Grim Reaper! Your “Hey everyone – I completely missed the point of Tom Harris’s latest blogpost!” badge is in the post.
Thursday 5 November 2009 at 9:28 pm
Has no one examined the fact he IS getting paid that staggering amount of money. I think we should have a system much like the US Government has; the top man/woman gets paid the most and everyone else down the ladder gets less.
So maybe the PM would get £100,000. Then Ministers £90k. Then maybedown the bottom, MP’s should get £65 or £70k (more than current but with less expenses etc.). Then civil servants can be on similar wages.
Why, for instance does the Chief Executive of Inverclyde Council get paid £111,849 yet the Group Leader will only get somewhere along the lines of £25k?? One is an elected official who is answerable to the public for his conduct, whereas the other is an unelected civil servant! Why should he get four times the money?
I’ve heard various noises about the ridiculous wages these people get, ranging from “commercial wages being similar so we need to pay a fair amount” to charges of cronyism but none of that really matters.
What matters is ending this ridiculous policy and paying these people a fair wage. For the job they do £45k a year MAX is more than fair. Likewise bump up the councillors salaries. Councillor is a full time job, so 25k a year would be fair being it the national average. Yet a basic councillor receives just £16k!! You get more working in a call centre!
And that’s just what the local government civil-servant/elected official situation looks like.
What on earth does the Westminster/Holyrood pay differences look like.
We should be paying our elected officials more and our civil-servants a lot less. At least if we think the elected official is doing a duff job we can vote them out. Why should my tax money go to giving some faceless bureaucrat a golden-handshake of £250k for doing a crap job?
Thursday 5 November 2009 at 10:30 pm
Math Campbell
Has no one examined the fact he IS getting paid that staggering amount of money.
*********************************************
Par for the course, fella, the public sector/quangocracy don’t get out of bed for less than a hundred large.
Thursday 5 November 2009 at 10:44 pm
I’ll just wait on here a while for the ‘MPs’ expenses’ sympathy posts…..
Nope…
De nada…
There’ll be one along in a minute…
Ok maybe another minute…
Lot of weather we’ve been having lately…
Nadine Dorries not read this blog then…
…or Iain Dale.
Nights are fair drawing in…
Tcha, was that a sagebrush rolling down Main Street?…
Doesn’t time fly when you’re having fun.
Last call for sympathy…
Going…
going…
gone.
Friday 6 November 2009 at 12:30 am
chairman of “Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority”
Well theres only 1 of them and most people wouldn’t try and be the chairmen.
651 MP’s and thousands of people will spend years trying to get on that gravy train.
Nope i think he’s worth it.
Mp’s on the other hand are worth an anunual salary of around £4.65. We should keep reducing the wage until there’s approx 1300 candidates.
Which is around £4.65 given the behaviour of most of the careerists that make up the current HoC.
Friday 6 November 2009 at 2:42 am
I would suggest that Tom is right – even in the most dire of situations there are often moments of comedy. Nay, very frequently moments of comedy. It is in the nature of the human mind to notice nonsense and contradictions in any situation and to laugh about them.
What surprised me was that the Speaker mentioned Kennedy’s salary. It did not seem to me to be particularly relevant. One can only assume that the Speaker intended to provoke a response of some kind – like a judge making an amusing comment in a murder trial.
I hope that it is in order to comment on the matter of MP’s expenses in this thread. Personally, I have no objection to MPs having a base in London subsidised by the taxpayer in order to fulfil their parliamentary duties. Nor have I any objection to an MP claiming his actual expenses in visiting his constituency. But why should an MP need to have a HOME in London or his constituency? After all, he is only elected for a period of 5 years at most. My own MP (Whom I shall not name!) lives in London I believe. His/her constituency is in Lancashire. He, presumably, only visits his constituency occasionally (say, once a week). Why does he need a HOME in the constituency? This person claimed 10s of thousands of pounds for repairs and refurbishments for this constituency (second) HOME. But he was only elected for a period of five years at most. What is his justification for buying a HOME in the constituency? The possibility of being re-elected at the next General Election is not sufficient justification in itself since re-election is only a possibility. It can only be the expectation of capital gains when and if the constituency home is sold. Interest only mortgage, lots of improvements paid for by the taxpayer, nice tax-free capital gain on sale. Perfect!
What is truly, truly appalling about the situation is that ALL MPs, INCLUDING THE PM, MINISTERS AND THE SPEAKER, MUST HAVE BEEN COMPLICIT. The longer an MP has been in place, the more complicit. To that extent, all MPs are guilty of conspiracy to defraud the taxpayer. Is it any wonder that the powers-that-be want to rush through changes in order to gain closure? They want to avoid the really serious questions about MPs’ complicity.
What can be done?
In my opinion, all MPs standing for re-election at the next General Election must appologise for this complicity. Note, not only for their own expenses claims but for their complicity. Even MPs are human and feel the need to turn their eyes away from things that they do not wish to see. Such an apology must be a genuine apology and not just a form of words. It must say, “Yes, I was somewhat concerned about my claims and the way in which some of my colleagues seemed to be going too far, but I am only human and I went along with the prevailing ethic. I should have known better and perhaps I should have spoken out, but it is very difficult to do that when the rules appear to permit it. I am sorry”. Such a statement would have my sympathy, provided that I felt that it was genuine.
We must also ask questions about employing spouses as ’secretaries’. How is it that these highly paid ’secretaries’ didn’t even have enough skill to monitor their spouse’s expenses? It seems obvious to me for this reason that the term ’secretary’ was just an excuse to claim extra income. That is how it seems to me, and I have no doubt that that is how it has seemed to Kelly and that is the reason, fundamentally, for the banning of spouses as ’secretaries’. Obviously, not all such spouse ’secretaries’ fall into this class, but enough do to render the employment of family members to be untenable in the future.
The Kelly report is fine, but much more needs to be done in order to clarify what are the reasonable and genuine costs of being an MP.
Friday 6 November 2009 at 5:00 am
I know Sammy, but I’m serious. Think how much money could be saved if along with a bonfire of the Quangos like the SNP are doing (although I’d advocate a lot more) we also cut wages, not of the front-line people that actually matter, but of the annoying, petty bureaucrats that earn 2 or 3 times the wage of MP’s and are far less accountable.
Civil servants already have far too much power, so much it may indeed be infeasible, since they’re the ones that actually enact what the Government decree, and it’s hard to tell someone “make it so you pay yourselves less money”…
But it needs done. How many hospitals will kicking out a load of Health-Board 100k-ers allow us to build?
How many extra teachers can we employ if we don’t pay Council Education Managers 280K (or whatever that Glasgow Council women got, too early for me to go look it up) in a golden handshake after firing them?
I think the answer is “many” and I can see no valid reason we don’t do it yesterday!
Friday 6 November 2009 at 7:18 am
Councillor is a full time job
Please excuse me while I pretend to cough for a few minutes.
Friday 6 November 2009 at 8:06 am
I would cap all public sector salaries at £75,000 per year. No one can plead poverty at that level of pay.
If they don’t like it they can always apply for jobs in the private sector and find out what they are really worth. It would come as quite a shock to most of them.
Friday 6 November 2009 at 9:16 am
Tom,
While I get your blogpost, I wouldn’t have been surprised if it was jeering. I’d have jeered being an MP on £60k and finding out some person who won’t really have much to do (except rubber stamp the Kelly report) is being paid more than an MP. In my view, they should be paid the same as a junior minister (but not linked). Shocking really.
Friday 6 November 2009 at 10:02 am
Hawkeye. Where do you work and how much do you get paid?
So we can send the heads of medical research at leading Universities back to the United States?
So we can do absolutely nothing to attract good managers from the private sector?
So our best doctors and surgeons leave the NHS?
Smashing plan, pity it stands up to absolutely no scrutiny.
Friday 6 November 2009 at 10:06 am
I think the idea of getting rid of quangos is much misunderstood. You cannot actually just get rid of them because they serve important functions. The point of reforming quamgos is two-fold – firstly to get rid of duplication where it exists and secondly to return functions which should actually be under democratic control to democratic control, in the majority of cases local government.
Friday 6 November 2009 at 10:16 am
Tom,
Even Labour can’t spin this one – we saw and heard it. Nobody said “just listen to them jeering” we just heard them jeering. Pathetic.
Don’t get me wrong, jeering was called for – £100k to be a prefect is shameful – but jeering from you lot of fraudsters, thieves and liars is just too much.
Friday 6 November 2009 at 10:19 am
You’re right – on TV it didn’t sound like laughter at all.
So we have to believe it’s either a derisive groan or hilarity.
Considering there were hundreds of MP’s in the room isn’t it more likely to be a mix of emotions ?
Some were derisive, some may have found it funny and some just snorted because they didn’t understand.
Who knows ?
Looking forward to seeing all the resignations of MP’s “who have just had enough” though (as your colleague, Mr Blunkett suggested yesterday in his woeful Grauniad piece).
Friday 6 November 2009 at 10:57 am
Chris on Thames said: “Hawkeye. Where do you work and how much do you get paid?”
I work for a private company. Since I do not suck at the public t*t, how much I earn is none of your business.
“So we can send the heads of medical research at leading Universities back to the United States?”
Yes – maybe we do. There were a lot of hangers-on in the public sector back in 97 and there is a million more of them now.
“So we can do absolutely nothing to attract good managers from the private sector?”
There is no point until we eliminate the underachieving ones that currently exist in the public sector. Do you want more “Alan Croziers” trousering a few million per year whilst stuffing up public services?
“So our best doctors and surgeons leave the NHS?”
Yep. They can go back to private practice and bid on price for patient work. The would help reduce the vast bloat in the NHS
“Smashing plan, pity it stands up to absolutely no scrutiny.”
So what is your wonder plan then? Continue haemorrhaging money all over the place? Get out of debt by having more of it?
Drastic times demand drastic measures. Go look up “drastic”.
Friday 6 November 2009 at 11:59 am
Math Campbell
Friday 6 November 2009 at 5:00 am
I know Sammy, but I’m serious.
**********************************************
*You’re* serious.
I believe a reasonable target for the drain of the public sector on our purse would be to halve the cost.
How many hundreds of millions of pounds a year does the public sector spend on management consultants so that John Reid can come out with *****y jargon like ‘not fit fir purpuss’?
How much money has Warren Buffett spent on managment consultants in his entire career? Not a red cent.
So who’s going to attack the cost of public sector sclerosis?
God knows.
Chainsaw Dan Hannan – where are you in our hour of need?
Friday 6 November 2009 at 12:05 pm
Math Campbell
we also cut wages, not of the front-line people that actually matter,
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…and let’s get rid of this absolute myth that ‘front-line’ costs can’t be cut. Agency nurses costing £100 an hour, posties b*ggering of home five hours into an eight hours shift, a police service where 90%* of the daily duties of a constable could be done by (much cheaper) civilian staff,.
Of course SNP aren’t doing enough.
a) they don’t have a clue and
b) their main aim is to be re-elected not reform the country for the better.
*CF Ronnie O’Houlihan’s Independent Review of Policing report.
Friday 6 November 2009 at 12:07 pm
@Indy
While quangoes do perform various governmental services that should not be done by unaccountable bodies you miss the key point:
Government is way too large. There has been a huge grab for power by the political classes both economically and legally. The percentage of the GDP that is governmental is ridiculously high. The NHS is the 4th largest employer, in the WORLD! We have less civil liberties now than at any time, outside of war time, since the Magna Carta was signed.
We need a smaller government, a more vibrant and diverse private sector. We need fewer jobsworths poking their noses into private affairs, we need less protection from terrorists and more protection of our rights.
We need a government that is afraid of the people, not a people afraid of the state.
We need a government that protects people’s rights and, if democratically asked to do so, looks after the poor and the sick. We most definitely do not need a government that tells when, where and how much we should drink; that tells us what we can and can’t do in our own homes; that gives Transport For London the ability to see your bank statements and enter your home; that uses human tragedies and the resultant media panic to push through their restrictive legislation; that ignores scientific evidence; that creates racial divisions under the guise of being politically correct; that tells adults what pictures they can and can’t look at.
This is not a rant against the current government per se, but a rant against every government since the 60’s, and since Thatcher especially.
Friday 6 November 2009 at 4:49 pm
Why exactly do we even need MPs?
Most people have a red button the TV remote control these days.
Friday 6 November 2009 at 5:40 pm
Hawkeye you do actually suck at the public tit.
I don’t know what you do but the chances are you employ people who were educated by teachers paid for by the public, who receive healthcare and benefits paid for by the public, who travel to work on roads or railways paid for by the public. If your workplace goes on fire you can phone the fire brigade paid for by the public. If robbers break in you can phone the police paid for by the public. If you find yourself in an episode of Dr Who being attacked by dinosaurs you will be rescued by the army paid for by the public.
The private sector and the public sector are not mutually exclusive. They are mutually dependent.
Friday 6 November 2009 at 5:52 pm
Paul the NHS may be the 4th largest employer in the world but as a nation we spend less than half of what the USA spends on healthcare as a proportion of GDP – and we have better a better health service than they do.
That suggests that a pubolicly funded health service is a more efficient and effective way to provide healthcare than not having a publicly funded health service.
This public/private argument is always framed in such a way as to suggest that if we did not pay taxes to fund public services the need to pay for them would somehow disappear. Well it wouldn’t. If we did not have the NHS we would have to pay more for our own healthcare as individuals and our employers would have to pay more.
Friday 6 November 2009 at 6:42 pm
Indy said: “I don’t know what you do but the chances are you employ people who were educated by teachers paid for by the public, “ …. etc, etc, etc….
Indy – that is true. It is also completely irrelevant. Those services are provided because I pay my taxes, not as a form of payment or recompense. I receive no salary from the state.
“The private sector and the public sector are not mutually exclusive. They are mutually dependent.”
You are almost correct. The is a dependence and it is not very mutual. It is almost totally one sided. If the private sector vanished then the public sector would be in real trouble as they create no wealth at all – they consume it instead. No private sector means no teachers, no policemen, no firemen, no ambulances, no money to build bureaucratic empires etc etc because it is the activities of the private sector that pay for all of this.
If the public sector vanished then the private sector would fill the void, although in a less agreeable way I grant you.
Friday 6 November 2009 at 9:50 pm
Will Sir Ian be entitled to a bonus depending on how many MPs he catches out?
Will his staff be security cleared by the Dully Tele et al?
Friday 6 November 2009 at 10:44 pm
Certainly Math Campbell has made some valid points.
Another one of the places we should be looking to cut costs is in the BBC. Much though I deplore Foulkes and his constant mouthing off about nothing, he was right when he asked some news reader what she earned and discovered that it was £90,000!!!
I understand that the head of the BBC gets nearly £900,000. What does he think he is, a failed banker?
If people could do better in the private sector then let them. If that is what is on their minds then that is what they should do. I suspect many of them wouldn’t last a month without getting punted.
Having worked in both public and private sectors I can bear witness to the difference.
Interestingly on the subject of MPs’ expenses. I see that some junior minister at the Dept of Work and Pensions has said that women need to have their cleaners’ wages on expenses. I’m assuming that she means ALL women, not just women MPs who are presumably made of the same material as other women.
Friday 6 November 2009 at 11:30 pm
As I recall the news person who owned to earning £90,000 is rather more than a pretty news reader – she is a journalist, sometimes anchoring BBC News 24’s programme on her own.
I suspect that if and when she moves to a commercial channel she will earn a lot more.
The market for such people, and celeb performers like Ross, is small. Their services are distinguished by their variety which makes them far removed from the sorts of undifferentiated commodities which simple economics deals with.
I used to enjoy various of the Dully Teles preaching about Labour’s wicked politics of envy, and in the same breath whinging about the pay of such people, and the houses of MPs who, in the case for example of Hazel Blears, were pretty modest.
Saturday 7 November 2009 at 10:15 am
MPs work incredibly hard for their money.
Why, some of them have got five jobs. One has TEN, apparently.
That might be why protestations of being underpaid for what they do often fail to illicit as much sympathy as MPs would like.
Saturday 7 November 2009 at 10:30 am
Our political system isn’t broke, the Mr Fixits imagine they are on the make, stupidly ignoring that the narrative they run with is spun by the Billionaire’s Press and the Billionaires Party (run by their multi-millionaires Chameleon & Osborne) in Their interests.
If they don’t like the way this country is run after the next GE (Fourth in a row) I suggest they leave. Our membership of the EU should make their range of effective choice easier than it would be otherwise.
Freedom and all that.
Saturday 7 November 2009 at 11:52 am
Hmm… You can remove your tongue from your cheek now. It’s nice to see someone from HP who is suitably embarrassed on their behalf.
I notice that an annual salary of £65k puts MPs in the top 8% of earners, given your constituency Tom , I would think you are probably one of the highest earners there.
Actually £65K seems a pretty good wage for someone who requires no expertise or skills or formal qualifications or experience, they just need to pass the employment panel (albeit a large panel) who really don’t care about the individual they really just care about the individuals boss.
The fact that they all think they are worth more than £65K for a part time job (it must be part time otherwise they wouldn’t be able to take on other roles) is actually funny.
As someone who has always worked in the private sector but sometimes on public sector sites I can say that the public sector really does attract and encourage some of the laziest and least capable individuals I have ever met. I once encountered an IT Director (arms length agency) who had spent £40m on a system redevelopment who’s IT expertise ran as far as an English Degree and daddy being terribly high up at the FO. The project:
1) Didn’t need done in the first place, it was a vanity project.
2) Was originally costed at £6m
3) Was recommended against by the existing supplier in writing.
4) Was recommended against by independent consultants in writing.
Saturday 7 November 2009 at 7:07 pm
Actually few MPs have more than one JOB, some of them – many Tories – have INTERESTS. Traditional perk, doesn’t look like it costs the public anything, does it? But t might be thought to somewhat bias the MPs’ decision making if Firm A is paying a hefty retainer . . .
Will your MP (or other candidate) be declaring that they are Trade Union sponsored? (possibly) or that Messrs Knockitorfandretail & Co are supplying him with a second income?
I suppose the battle poor Mr Chameleon had with his “jobsworthlots rebels” led by Mr Hague (Not due to inherit £ms like Chameleon & Osborne) has fallen from public view now.
But the date by which Shadow Chameleons are to have given up their outside “Jobs” has been set back a couple of times, I think it is now the END of this December.
Had it not been for Brown and the largely misunderstood expenses scandal Chameleon would not have got his way at all. He had put his foot down on this (as per the domiciles and tax situations of MesLords Cashcroft & Laidlaw) several times before, to no avail . . .
Sunday 8 November 2009 at 11:23 pm
[...] at Blether with Brian, he talks about some comparisons with Holyrood’s expenses system and Tom Harris MP was pleased in part for missing some of the [...]
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