And another thing…

Hmmm

Proto Embourgeoisment thesis C1955?

Tom:”How I invented New Labour”

I really wouldn’t boast about that.

Tom,

I think the Labour party was in an intellectual and organisational mess throughout the 80s and early 90s: from constant necessary battles to keep the likes of Militant out to producing stickers that didn’t stick. A lot of the reform like OMOV seems so obvious now: however at the time I was suspicious as we all knew that it was being used as a manoeuvre to oust activists from key positions and protect crap MPs from reselection.

However, the great failing of New Labour was to fail to replace the displaced mostly left-wing activists with any sort of numbers of New Labour activists with an intellectual vision. So instead of shifting the party to a social democratic third way type vision, by default the same old right-wing dullards and over-promoted aspirant councillors were used to keep New Labour on track. Look at Holyrood and wince and then take some responsibility for it Tom!

Party reform could have happened without throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Having an inclusive party that supported an aspirant population and was proud to maintain benefits for the poor shouldn’t have been that difficult.

Instead we were left with a party that should not have cut single parent benefits, not have joined in the invasion or Iraq and really shouldn’t be wasting money on Trident. I think the last two of these decisions point to the intellectual and strategic failure at the heart of New Labour.

12 years in office: economy in recession, record peace-time debt, 50% of the national income is public spending, less civil liberties, more laws than ever before, police beyond even the reach of the courts, more quangoes, unelected House of Lords, Monarchy, MPs dipping their hands in the till, the two leading parties virtually indistinguishable, more powers handed over to the undemocratic EU, BNP representatives in Europe, energy usage currently unsustainable in the UK, Scotland not going to the World Cup, state deferrence to religion/Islam, state Church, Scottish teams awful in Europe, just awful in fact, too many badly educated kids with degrees, decrease in social mobility, too many cheap immigrants driving down UK wages, terrible ending to Battlestar Galactica.

I’m not saying Labour should or could have avoided or solve ALL of these problems, but surely one or two would have suggested Labour had something to offer.

Speaking of which, other than slagging DC (and he deserves it) what things have gone so right in the last 12 years that you think you could actually campaign positively on?

I’m not sure that’s really something you want to admit to.

After 12 disastrous years, the biggest budget deficit ever, our soldiers dying in our very own Vietnam war, education standards dropping, and unemployment rising.

Your observations were correct though, and Harman’s attempts to drive the party back to the left will only hinder your chances of being re-elected.

The ending to “Battlestar Glactica” was okay…

Did I forget to mention: the end of habeus corpus, torture, illegal spying on citizens, illegal spying on foreign diplomats, Iraq, allowing British citizens to be held and tortured in America, allowing planes taking detainees to be tortured to pass through Britain, making cartoons and text illegal, denying gay people the right to get married, not allowing terminally ill people to end their lives without worrying that their relatives may be arrested, removing regulation that led to the financial crisis, bringing Peter Mandleson back 3 times!, having Bishops in the House of Lords, mismanaging 8 years of boom by spending (at least) every penny when times were good, allowing education standards to fall, centralising control of organisations that benefit from distributed control, encouraging house price growth turning it into a bubble (OK BoE has some blame there too), sending soldiers to a danger zone ill-equipped, selling weapons to regimes that then used the weapons against their own people – and only Robin Cook had the courage of his convictions to resign. How can you let Robin Cook be the only one in the government with morals?

I think devolution in Scotland, Wales and even Northern Ireland is a rip-roaring success. As is the national minimum wage.

The bans on handguns and animal hunting also showed that the country was being run by fundamentally decent people who cared about life.

Well, I think the real fightback started with Neil Kinnock. I When Militant were on the point of being about to deselect Donald Dewar in Garscadden, Kinnock simply imtimated that if that happened he would set up a new Garscaddedn Labour Party.

Raises all sorts of questions about local democracy etc of course – and how you respond to infiltration. Took guts anyway.

Tom

What will you invent to replace New Labour..we need to know!

Quietzapple’s Third Law of Blogging:

‘They will always be able to tell lies ten times faster than their lies can be refuted.’

You were quite right, of course, that Labour had to appeal to those who had bought their council houses etc, just as Wislon managed to appeal to the Mini owners of 1964.

On a local basis some of us pitched our local policies and style of literature beyond the local council houses in the ’80s btw.

There is still room for universalism:

‘Everyone should have opportunities to learn how to swim’

Renewal now might begin with such simplicities, Hannan/Carswell may do us a very big favour by their fundamentalist approach, so long as we don’t get bogged down at that stage.

24/7 media always tends to take the public’s eyes off the real political ball. The screeching zeitgeist of the Billionaire’s interests is intended to distract from what is important.

Well, the have-nots have exceeded your expectations, and now have even notter, and there are more of them to spread the good news.

And the haves, well, you certainly gave them a lot more attention, mostly in the raft of stealth taxes and surveillance and interference in our everyday lives..

You got it half right – you related, but did not “appeal” New Labour is about as appealing as being told you have anal warts, but not to worry, the cancer treatment will knock them out.

I can cope with this. I have to until next year, but what really worries me is that the Tories are going down the same anodyne, deceitful route. Yes, they have told us it will be difficult, but they propose no real, radical solutions.

Hasn’t anybody got the guts to tackle the real problems we face?

@Chris upon Thames

“Instead we were left with a party that should not have cut single parent benefits, not have joined in the invasion or Iraq and really shouldn’t be wasting money on Trident.”

Dangerously near perfect summary of what we Blairites were and are up against.

When the UK desperately needed change, along came New Labour and made everything a whole lot worse.

People are waking up to the false left/right paradigm.

The ending to BSG was terrible for two reasons:
1. The odds of finding an independently evolved creature on another planet that you are genetically compatible with is virtually zero, we can’t mate (successfully!) with any creature on this planet, what are the chances of being able to do it with something from another planet.
2. The spirituality element was at odds with the rest of the series. Everything else seemed to revolve around issues we face, but to end it with monotheism being the correct choice and the ‘angels’ seeing how humanity progressed into the 21st century was galling.

Also, who gives up technology to return to the land? That’s not a common part of human nature. We are lazy and even when we’re energetic we recognise that we get more done with technology.

Besides BSG though, I repeat my challenge to you: what things have gone well in the last 12 years that you think you could actually campaign positively on?

Have you notice how Man Utd only win the European Cup under Labour?

To me the philosophy of New Labour seemed like little more than ‘do whatever it takes to get elected and then do whatever to stay there’.

The truth in the notion that you have to be in office to make a difference has been taken as an excuse to do almost anything.

I look at Dennis Skinner and then I look and Mandleson and Blair. How they can purport to be from the same party or represent the same interests I will never know.

What ever New Labour is or whatever it is for, it has never really been straight.

When one is self-righteous enough and the modern left always is, then the rules and spirit of the game take second place to the individuals success. TB knew he was right, so who the hell cares what traditions, systems or protocols he trod all over.
In Blair’s mind his dream is bigger than the collective wisdom of peoples and institutions gone by. Therefore anything goes.
A very dangerous mindset and philosophy. Exactly the concept Campbell uses to explain away his role and conduct within it and a concept we are just starting to pay for.

Tom – the fact that you had to point this out shows the state of the party in the 80s.

Chris upon Thames
Wednesday 11 November 2009 at 11:58 am
I think devolution in Scotland, Wales and even Northern Ireland is a rip-roaring success
*********************************

You jest.

Surely.

I wish you hadn’t bothered. Really, you should be in a state of abject apology, not congratulating yourself, even lightheartedy.

Remember “touch on crime”? Today, reports of a five year old raped by a man who would have been in jail already for rape, but was not given a custodial sentence.

Well done Jack. Got your secret inquests. Working towards massive communications intercept. Unable to protect a five year old, when he had all the tools needed to do so.

@Chris upon Thames:
Devolution removed some power away from the London-centric labour party, but remember labour were in power in Scotland and Wales for the majority of the time too.

The minimum wage is a dubious one. Would stricter immigration controls have raised wage to that level anyway? Is there greater unemployment because of the minimum wage? Would raising the minimum benefits to a decent living level have forced workplaces to increase wages to get people off benefits?

The hunting ban, which I agree with, was a sop to the labout troops that Labour new would provoke no revolt from their new fanbase in the cities and suburbs. Most huntin people tended to be natural Tories anyway.

The ban on handguns was just typical of this government’s cowardly, cynical use of a tradgedy to pass through legislation without a proper debate in the House. They did not have to wait until there was a massacre to ban guns. If they had guts they would have opened up the debate when people were calmer. And I know it was the Major government that kicked off the anti-gun legislation.

It was the same with Sara’s Law, a despicable piece of legislation (that has now been greatly surpassed) that the government cynically tried to use an all too human tradgedy to be able to spy on the citizens of this country. Same with the 7/7 attacks.

And, as a final piece of criticism of the last 12 years, the latest piece of legislation passed by the cowards in the Government passed – the extension to the Proceeds of Crime Act (which I believe, as an extension, is at the Minister’s discretion, not open for a House debate or vote). This horrific legislation allows organisations as diverse as the Royal Mail to Transport for London to search your home, freeze your bank accounts and confiscate property.

Please have a read of:
http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/law/article6892830.ece
And see that even the police think this is a step too far, of course, they want to keep this power to themselves.

I have noticed a certain glibness in Tom’s posts recently. A certain “what will be will be”. Perhaps “demob happy” is the best phrase.

It’s almost as if Tom thinks nothing matters now.

It is really hard to imagine Scotland, Wales and NI without their own parliaments, all elected on reasonably proportional basis.

Surely no one is seriously considering abolishing these?

Liberanos: probably why you are still in the Labour party and I am not.

So you are to blame then. I would keep quiet about it if I were you.

It will not look good on your new CV.

What will you invent between now and the election to save Labour?

The Record Ten Years’ economic expansion, the low interest rates, the low income tax rates (Trolls have to argue about the 10p rate – they cannot make out that we have high income tax, and they have to fib about the rest(the various tax credits, the vastly improved situation of so many women, the steadfast battle against Islamo-fascism, the devolved Parliament and assembly, the beginnings of reform of the House of Lords, the vastly improved NHS waiting times and much else there, the maintenance of Britain’s military power, the advance in our profile in the EU . . .

. . . All magnificent achievements.

Compare to Major (minor) (who imagines Chameleon may bring him back) and the Cone Hotline, and Sell off of the Rail Industry. Oh and abolition of the Poll Tax.

Quietzapple
Wednesday 11 November 2009 at 7:58 pm
The Record Ten Years’ economic expansion, the low interest rates,
******************************************

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Give that man a GCSE in Economics.

Have you the slightest idea *why* we have record low interest rates.

Have you the slightest idea *what* the “Record Ten Years economic expansion” spawned.

Have you not noticed the UK economy has just had its biggest bust in three-quarters of a century?

Hint – they’re all connected.

(I never usually bother reading this fellow’s posts – if it’s always this funny, I might just start.)

Foolish Sammy.

Check out this:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2006/mar/22/budget2006.budget

5% vs 15% Labour’s first 10 years vs a pretty random Major year.

Careful Sammy, you seem to be confusing your hysteria with amusement.

men, coats, white & etc.

Quietzapple
Wednesday 11 November 2009 at 8:27 pm
Foolish Sammy.
Check out this:
*********************************************

…and what does he do, sticks up a link to a Polly Toynbee article.

It gets funnier.

In fact nearly as funny as Nicky’s regular, ‘Johann Hari has a really good take on the economy this week’, posts.

Can I suggest you go to the Financial Times for your economics – it’s not great but it’s a sight better than Polly Toynbee.

Thank me later.

And best of luck with that GCSE.

BTW the World Wide Recession had little to do with the UK’s economic expansion.

Because some of our economy’s growth came from international financial services we were higher than others and have lost more as that sector collapsed, BUT from a higher base than most others.

I fear Sammy hasn’t got Dully Maul Propaganda Econ (11) yet.

“But trawling through The Herald’s excellent online archive…”

And they complain about us students having too much time on our hands.

@Sammy “Give that man a GCSE in Economics.”

I’m not sure he’s old enough for a GSCE yet. Judging by his posts, I would suggest he’s still believes in fairy tales, or at least New Labours fairy tales.

Ow yaroo, gerrorrrfff !!!

The Bros Grimm are trying to lay paws on me again . . .

Silly boys, try Chameleon & Osborne for some appropriate material for your desperate tales . . .

Simon
@Sammy “Give that man a GCSE in Economics.”
I’m not sure he’s old enough for a GSCE yet.
*********************************************

Well quite.

Best episode of Mock The Weak I’ve seen in a long time.

I’m going to pin NobellaureateZapple’s ‘Record Ten Years’ economic expansion’ post up on the notice-board in the Carlton Club this Friday.

We always like a good laugh in there.

@Quietzapple
“Because some of our economy’s growth came from international financial services we were higher than others and have lost more as that sector collapsed, BUT from a higher base than most others.”

As someone with slightly more than a GCSE in economics I’d just like to point out a few of facts:

1. The tories love the City at least as much as GB, so for anyone to claim this wouldn’t have happened under them is partizan fool at best.
2. Our higher base due to our love-in with the City has meant a larger fall as you say, but it has also meant a much higher proportion of our GDP has gone on the bail out, it has meant much more public ownership of bad debt, it has meant a much higher level of debt* than other countries.
3. Our lack of diversity, which increased growth during the good times, has meant we are much slower to pull ourselves out of recession that other countries.
4. Our fantasy of the City that can do no wrong led to the removal of regulation that sh/w/could have caught the bad lending before it got to the levels it did.
5. The worldwide recession had everything to do with the UK and US debt-fuelled economic expansion. When your growth is based on debt that is fine, but when it is an unserviceable debt then you have a massive crash waiting to happen. When banks are trying to reduce outstanding debt, shore up their balance sheets and stay in business the last thing they will do is lend to consumers to spend or businesses to invest. This creates a horrible situation where even good, profitable businesses go out of business due to short-term cash flow issues.

* Can anyone else remember GB lecturing all other EU economies to get their national debt below 40% GDP like he had managed to do in the UK? Ignoring the fact that much of our public debt was off the books in Railtrack, PFI’s etc.

It is largely our dependence on international trade which means that we lag behind many other countries on our way into and out of this recession.

Still more praise due for managing to avoid the USA led one of the early 2000s.

There May be countries who list borrowings against banks and other assets as debts as suggested but they do not spring to mind . . .

Fortunately we do not have the situation where banks do not have money to lend, nor where they refuse good business propositions. Rather there is an understandable shortage of good ventures to lend to, understandable when our economy is slowly on its way out of recession, may have just been out of recession since august.

I do recall from the days when I studied economics that there were as many opinions as articles.

It should come as no surprise that such opinions, including those of the historian and record growth Chancellor Gordon Brown move on in time.

If Economics was a science then Keynes ideas, which helped him to an investment fortune, deserve more consideration, but this runs counter to the right’s intent to remake society on the ‘maistre’ principle, with caps doffed to Lordlings like Chameleon & Osborne.

Oh, and tragedy doesn’t need an extra d, but well done anyway, you obviously have need of it somewhere . . .. ask meslords above.

@QZ
Thanks, my mispelling of tragedy totally refutes all the points I made.

Wondering how I managed to do that though… TWICE! It’s a tradgedy.

Tom, and anyone else,

why has there been no outrage at Labour’s shocking use of fake statistics?

After Nutt we no have Denis MacShane claiming that there were 40,000 prostitutes shipped into Germany for the last World Cup. German official figures, after the tournament was… 5

In spite of that MacShane is still claiming the imaginary 40,000 (a number guessed before the tournament by Christian groups, womens groups etc.) and the ever-wonderful Harriet Harman has come into the discussion in her (in)capacity as Minister for Women saying she and the government will do all they can to stop this invasion of prostitutes, that won’t happen, and then claim their policies were the reason it didn’t happen.

Bit paranoid to worry about how many prostitutes are kept out of the UK when they likely would find Paul’s opinion poll palls.

Shurely shome dishtractshion beckonsh?

Amusing that Paul believes that there were only 5 prostitutes moved/were brought into Germany for the last World Cup.

Further evidence that he shouldn’t be doing these numbery thingammyjigs.

I suspect that the real issue here is that trafficking in women should be prevented.

Funny how a tory troll cannot.

@Quietzapple, of course traffiking of anyone, (men, women or children) against their will should be prevented. You have missed the point, deliberately or otherwise.

It’s the Governments use of fake statistics that is wrong. Such as Jackie Smith, when Home Secretary, proclaiming that 528 criminals had been arrested for traffiking under Operation Pentameter 2.

The truth is that of those 528 arrested no-one was convicted for traffiking.

Not one.

Simon:

I doubt that a decision not to prosecute any of those showed that none were guilty, just that there was insufficient evidence for further investigations to bring sufficient likelihood of convictions.

Your use of these statistics is, perforce, ignorant, but you knew that.

You have missed the point again. I’m beginning to think it may be deliberate.

The Police could go out and arrest 1000 sex traffikers every day, and the Home Secretary could announce how successful the multi-million operations has been.

However, if no-one is convicted, the operation cannot have been a success.

It’s Jackie Smiths announcement, before any convictions, that was wrong. Operation Pentameter 2 was a waste of money. A lot of money.

Simon:

You are assuming that you are right and then imagining that any evidence which is consistent with your nonsense proves it.

Take a breath.