And Another Thing…

Quietzapple.

Please translate your last post for me. I am of that age you know.

Tom, politics should challenge people.

People who challenge, or are offended, should be able to explain why and back up that opinion.

If they can’t, then they should shut up.

Shazia Mirza is, in my opinion, a more ‘serious’ comedian than Shappi Khorsandi, and no bad thing.

MPs, of course, can also be quick to take offence, and for similarly ridiculous reasons.

Math Campbell.

“There are few enough women in politics as it is.”

Dont worry about this, Cameron has introduced Male discrimination on PPC selectiont so more of his lady friends will get in. They have no idea about the area they are going to serve. The local party would prefere to pick who they and their members want, but hey, we have no say on anything any more. I just hope no one asks why people do not bother to vote anymore.

What an absolute disgrace to flout such hurtful comments about something you probably have little lived experience of. Let’s make one thing clear here, a bit of balance is required: women do not get pregnant alone YET they are constantly accused and berated for everything bad in society that men do not take responsibility for. You are evidently representing the wrong party. Also contraceptives have a failure rate. They actually do fail sometimes: then what is your opinion? Abortion should be prescriptive across the country if you don’t pass a ‘good citizen test’? Bring back compulsory adoptions and send children off to the middle classes? Why not have a homogenized Island, hey?

* What is the difference between your opinion and this opinion here?

http://thebattlefieldoflove.blogspot.com/2009/10/single-mother-on-verge-by-maria-roberts.html

You wear a suit.

T’is the only difference, sir.

@Quietzapple

Not entirely sure whether your quotes support or disprove my contention. It’s a little opaque, though that might be me.

Anyway, I can’t think it was a triumph for the Department or Johnson himself.

And it obviously wasn’t one for Nutt.

Edinburgh University – for people who weren’t posh enough to get into St Andrews.

You forgot to explain why this is a bad thing.

I don’t think he was saying any such thing: instead that UofE hardly has been keep English applicants out. Now, with the baddest of grace (not least considering the highly qualified SCE students who’re rejected by Oxbridge), Cairns is shrieking from the rooftops.

Even if one disagrees with this move, it is manifestly not racist and Cairns either doesn’t have a scooby what the term means or is, well, shrieking from the rooftops.

Given that students from England are already discriminated against when they choose to study in Scotland (it’s significantly more expensive for them than for native Scots)

Not by Scottish institutions. By the introduction of fees for English institutions; which AFAICT you voted for, Tom. It’s perfectly reasonable to expect England-domiciled students to pay, otherwise Scottish institutions would be maxed-out by 18 year olds who think it’s a human right to have free tertiary education.

What would happen if every Headteacher in the country followed the actions of Mr Hall the Headmaster of King’s College School in Wimbledon.

Chances are they’d be seen as hysterical twits, who don’t have the same outrage against Oxbridge looking down on straight A-grade Highers.

Then again, I don’t think students should necessarily get a vote in whichever constituency they’re studying.

No need to approve this, but I do think it should be publicized. He’s having a go at one of your lot!

http://efrafandays.wordpress.com/2010/03/19/has-osama-saeed-gone-mad/

That’s unnecessarily extreme, You might disagree profoundly with this particular policy, but Edinburgh University is a disgrace to Scotland? Really? Every piece of research they’ve ever done, every discovery they’ve made, every department, every teacher, every student: they’re all a disgrace to Scotland? I know we’re into election season, but a bit less hyperbole would be appreciated.

“Edinburgh University is a disgrace to Scotland? Really? Every piece of research they’ve ever done, every discovery they’ve made, every department, every teacher, every student: they’re all a disgrace to Scotland?”

Er, no – it’s a disgrace for valuing applicants more if they live nearer to the university. Isn’t that what I wrote?

Alec (12.24) says this is not racist and on the common sense understanding of that term he may be right, since that would imply that the English and Scots are of different races. In the parallel universe inhabited by equality and human rights legislation, however, it may well be. It will be interesting to see whether anyone tests it.

That said, apart from those unfortunates who actually wanted to study in Edinburgh, the English should be entirely relaxed about it. It will mean more able students studying at (and paying their fees to) English universities, strengthening them further against the Scottish institutions which, since 1998, must be regarded as their international competitors.

I look forward to the time when no English students will study at Scottish Universities.

Lets reverse this: Oxford will now take candidates preferentially from the south of England; Cambridge from East Anglia; London from ,er, London. Scots (or Welsh) will be discriminated against if they try to apply to those universities.

Now wait for the screaming to start.

If this goes on what about us Northern Irish students, we only have 1 remotely decent uni, we rely on scottish and english universities to take us, if they start favouring locals we’re going to be seriously disadvantaged!

Unixman, you try applying for Oxbridge with SCE passes.

Er, no – it’s a disgrace for valuing applicants more if they live nearer to the university. Isn’t that what I wrote?

TOM

As has been said, this is limited to unnamed named courses… unless ewes nose what these are, sensible discussion is a bit problematic. People might start flinging around accusations of racism.

Alec (12.24) says this is not racist and on the common sense understanding of that term he may be right, since that would imply that the English and Scots are of different races.

JAMES MATTHEWS

I think you mean are *not*. But, they are: at least as far as legislation is concerned.

Not that this makes a difference, though. You’re overlooking a certain point about applicants’ identities… d’you know what it is?

Yes, ‘ethnic’ English for the northern regions are favoured; and not all applicants from southern England will be ‘ethnically’ English (unless you’re suggesting that those of backgrounds such as West Indian or South Asian don’t reach sixth form). I doubt an ‘ethnic’ Scot in Corby would receive preferential treatment.

Anyone who thinks this is racism doesn’t understand the term or, tbh, has any experience of disenfranchisement (such as the head of a fee paying school who thinks his wards are a cut above others).

In the parallel universe inhabited by equality and human rights legislation, however, it may well be. It will be interesting to see whether anyone tests it.

Like freedom of speech, access to tertiary education is not a guarantee of venue. I may be wrong, but French unis already do similar (if not, more) for undergraduates. Primary and secondary schools also apply a concept known as “catchment areas”.

Hoping for UofE to slip down the league tables because of one decision which inconveniences a bunch of 18 year olds, as one poster has done, is spiteful, hysterical and without any sense of what universities do or of proportion.

If UofE were found to offer a poor undergraduate experience, it would experience a drop in roll and, susequently, intellectual capital and funding. But, it’s not as if point of origins for post-graduates, PhDs or post-docs are being manipulated.

Alec, No I don’t mean “not”. Read it again. Your point about the English from the North being included in the catchment area may or may not be valid. The courts recognise a concept of indirect discrimination and might well conclude that the Edinburgh policy does just that, whether or not there are some exceptions to it. They also provide remedies for national as well as ethnic groups. Only a test case would determine the issue with any certainty.

However, as I have said, I am very happy for the University of Edinburgh to continue to discriminate in a way that favours its English competitors. Long may it continue.

Hatred of the English live on well across the border.
The overt racisim of this ruling just confirms the centuries old dislike of anything English.
You may never elect a Tory PM again but I can assure you after the destruction of England by the Scottish Mafia we will never ever vote for any Scottish politican ever again
That is now written in blood after Brown Blair Martin Reed Alexander Darling et al. disgraceful incompetence in all areas of Government.
Your English hatred is now hard wired in the Scottish brain and only complete seperation will suffice for a majority of English sick to the stomach of our neighbours hatred of us north of the border

Is anyone actually reading the source article? Not only are undergraduate applicants from the northern English counties being favoured weighted on said unnamed named courses (from what is written, potentially over some Scottish applicants), but there’s naff all to say English post-grads or PhD applicants are being weighted against.

However, as I have said, I am very happy for the University of Edinburgh to continue to discriminate in a way that favours its English competitors. Long may it continue.

Naff off, troll.

Furthermore, Tom, I think it’s apposite to ask you to confirm if you voted for top-up fees [in English institutions]. Personally, I would agree with you, but it wouldn’t do to implicitly criticize such a move.

It would appear that the courses the policy affects are the MA Geography / joint MA Geography programmes. From the admissions policy document:

2. What other factors will be taken into account?

We aim to get as full a picture as possible of all our applicants’ attainment and potential
to achieve, seeking to place academic grades in the context in which they are achieved.
This means that we consider the following factors in combination.
a. If you have achieved or are predicted to achieve academic grades above our
published entry requirements.
b. If you attend a school where a relatively small proportion of the students progress to
university.
c. If you attend a school in the local area (defined as City of Edinburgh, East Lothian,
Midlothian, West Lothian, Scottish Borders, Fife, Falkirk and district,
Clackmannanshire); or a school in our wider locality (defined as the rest of Scotland,
Cumbria, Northumberland, Durham, Teesside, Tyne and Wear).
d. If your parents or carers have not studied at university. You must state this on your
UCAS application form for us to be able to take account of this factor.

Of course, universities attaching weighting to a prospective student’s locality isn’t new or even restricted to Edinburgh University.
For instance, from Birmingham University’s Access to Birmingham scheme:

To be eligible, you must be from a Greater West Midlands state school or college signed up to the scheme.

If you are accepted on to the scheme, we may be able to make you a reduced entry offer of up to two A level grades or the equivalent if you complete the Higher Education Learning Module.

So Tom, given that Birmingham University values applicants more if they live in the local area, would you say that the UoB is a disgrace and an embarrassment to England?

Sounds about right for Brum[*], Shambler.

[*] Brummies ain’t a race, so this ain’t racism.

I have some sympathy for the University, though it has turned into a PR shambles for them. As a current student at another Edinburgh university, it’s quite clear that Edinburgh is where the private school kids go: it is stuffed to the gills with Tatianas, Georginas, and Sebastians.

Now I don’t have anything against people applying to wherever they want to go, but such an environment is extremely off-putting for many people from other backgrounds (I deliberately made a hash of my interview at Cambridge for this reason). Sending out a message that people that went to James Gillespies are just as welcome as the Lorettonians and Harrovians is no bad thing in this context.

[...] when I cheered this goal in the Teviot Union two years ago). But Tom Harris, at least initially, had a right go at them, before Alex Massie’s sensible piece prompted him to reconsider and issue a very magnanimous [...]

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/scotland/article7094291.ece