And another thing…

I think the word was…. frit!

Early onset political dementia?

Urmm…there are more intersting things to talk about? Like Labour MPs and ministers claiming amazing things on their expenses. Like the spinned trillions at the G20 meeting. Like the latest opinion polls that show support for the Conservative Party is still above 40%. I’m sure that there are many other things that interest bloggers.

PS: Why do you refer to the list of bloggers you quoted as “right wing”? Does that make you a “hard left” blogger?

They can’t comment as it would prove the Cameron statement of “The Tories can be the Party of the NHS’ to be the lie we all knew it was

That is a conundrum isn’t it?

Perhaps they agree with you Tom, and they think the views of an MEP are irrelevant ;o)

What about another question?

…Ahem… *Clears Throat*

1) Which Labour Party blogs are carrying details and commentary on the brazen troughing by several cabinet ministers?

My point? Everyone everywhere ignores stories that they don’t like, and that don’t fit into the message they are trying to convey.

I do agree with you on this though, Dan Hannan’s comments on the NHS are definitely worthy of mention and discussion.

Probably because we are too busy laughing at the false indignation Alex Hilton has encouraged you all to display over it.

Try harder.

Have a nice night.

Call us crazy, but is it something to do with Hannan being a John Redwood-esque vote losing machine?

Because it’s possible to be right about some things and wrong about others.

For example, your choice of pictures in this blog are excellent, especially the one in the middle where you look like George Osborne.

On the other hand, you appear to be a Labour MP, which is, well, a less good choice.

It’s obvious from the on-line chatter that the Tories still have this EU problem.

And many of them long to be again the “nasty party” – particularly when they think power is within their grasp.

Above all they want to repeat previous Conservative mistakes and go on and on and on about the EU. They don’t seem to care that nobody (least of all the voters) is listening.

Their contempt for the softly softly approach of David Cameron is growing palpably.

“Call us crazy, but is it something to do with Hannan being a John Redwood-esque vote losing machine”

Unlike Jonah Brown, the election avoiding machine.

W.W.

Have tried a quick fact-check on Hannan’s evidence base for his NHS comments.

http://www.nextleft.org/2009/04/fact-checking-dan-hannan-on-nhs.html

Pot…kettle…black?

This is one of those rhetorical questions I’ve heard about.

I think ConHome had the video but no particular line on it. The comments seemed to be mixed, ranging from ‘Hannan is our (real) leader’ to ‘what the flip is he doing exposing us for what we really are before an election’.

Arsene Dale does have form on this sort of thing –

1. Ken Clarke on IHT
2. Eric Pickles on Question Time
3. Daniel Hannan on Fox

Oh and FYI, Hannan’s mate Glenn Beck – the one even other Fox presenters think is a loon – was making fun of the disabled last week –

http://thinkprogress.org/2009/03/13/shep-smith-beck-mockery/

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/04/03/glenn-beck-mocks-obamas-a_n_182933.html

The NHS should be up for debate.

Like every other public sector it is bloated, over-staffed, over-funded and overdue for an overhaul.

We are not talking about desecrating a temple or anything, just lets not get carried away with spending our money on every little discretionary nip and tuck shall we?

Hi Tom,

ConservativeHome did cover the video. We posted it on our PlayPolitical site (http://playpolitical.typepad.com/uk_conservative/2009/04/daniel-hannan-interview-with-sean-hannity-on-fox-news-in-which-he-describes-nationalised-healthcare-.html), linked to it from our frontpage and 27 comments were left.

Tim

Possibly because they know David Cameron has given a commitment that ‘the NHS is safe in his hands’ and people believe him because he, Samantha and Ivan so obviously relied on it.

How about talking about a Prime Minister and Labour Party which gave a Manifesto Commitment there would be a Referendum on the European Constitution – and then broke that commitment because the response would be NO. So much for (Labour ) Democracy in the UK.

Only two months now until the Euro Elections. I wonder HOW badly Labour are going to do.

Ha. When I wrote about him it was suggested it was a mania, Prezza said he was deservedly obscure. Let me just say, I agree with him 100% on the NHS. Outcomes are not good enough in the NHS. We need competition to drive up standards.

Do you celebrate rationed healthcare? I don’t.

Smoke and mirrors it what it is called Tom. There are far more things of concern. What position does Hannon have in the shadow cabinet ?

I’ve posted on this subject http://www.oberonhouston.com

Tom – “announcing that the government had nationalised the car industry.”

What he actually said was “…you have subsidized, where you have not nationalized outright, swathes of our economy, including the car industry and many of the banks”.

If you’re going to try to smear Hannan over slight technicalities, at least make sure you are correct, otherwise you just make yourself look like a fool.

I noticed LabourList tried to paint Hannan as saying the NHS is a ’socialist post-war conspiracy’ even though he immediately corrected himself when he said it. Is this really the best Labour can do?

Stick to smearing George Osborne. He’s completely useless, which is more Labour’s level.

Ridiculous. It’s well known that because of his disabled son, Dave has relied heaviliy on the NHS and has a well known fondness of it. With his son now dead, good luck to *anyone* in the tory party who wants to pick that particular fight.

And, I must say, even as a tory voter – as someone with MS, if we move to a private system (which I feel would provide a more professional, higher standard service), because I have a pre-existing medical condition, I’ll not get insurance.

I loathe the NHS – I loath the attitude of the vast majority of the staff, the administration and the way you are treated like meat that should be grateful for any medical care despite the fact we pay for it under threat of imprisonment via taxation. Maybe it’s just East Sussex PCT, but I don’t think so. However, a sudden switch to privatised medicine will,without some intervention, leave currently ill people unable to get insurance and thus condemned to their illness.

Wow! The One has really got the lefts goat up, I think the various outlets have being trying to push this story for days now hoping to get Hannan “back” for his you tube viral. Shame it’s not working I guess. Oh well could be worse! We could be looking at a peak unemployment number of 3.2m at the time of the next election, car sales plummeting 30.5% and all sorts of badness.

Tim Montgomerie: Fair enough. My bad.

Boudicea: You forgot to write “O/T”

Guido: I don’t object at all to a debate on the NHS. My view is that, while Hannan’s views are extreme and unpopular, they are nevertheless shared by a majority of Tory Party members.

Sally Fielding: I deleted your comment because of its racist nature.

“My view is that, while Hannan’s views are extreme and unpopular, they are nevertheless shared by a majority of Tory Party members.”

Steady on, Tom. I suggest going by the main party policy if you want to find out what the Conservatives will do about the NHS. One MEP (yes, that’s MEP, not MP) saying that he wants to radically change things is totally irrelevant in the big scheme of things.

Furthermore, I notice that you don’t mention the split between the Blairites and the Brownites when it comes to our public services. Blair = foundation schools, foundation hospitals, academy schools, private sector. Brown = hate the lot of them. Hardly a united front, is it.

Shaun,

The choice isn’t as stark as NHS vs. Private, nor does a reformed healthcare system have to abandon the principle of free delivery.

But competition is essential, and that means accepting that some hospitals will be worse than others, and likewise with GPs – just as under the current system.

The difference is that a truly competitive healthcare system encourages even the worse elements to improve as otherwise they would no longer attract sufficient patients to continue in business.

Unfortunately the insistence of all main parties that the NHS is the only true method of achieving the free delivery of healthcare prevents the serious discussion of alternative approaches that is desperately needed if the overall level of healthcare is to improve and the cost to the exchequer brought back to a more affordable level.

Tom,

I first read your blog when you made your statements regarding single parenthood as a career choice and how we needed to start saying that a welfare dependency was wrong.

I admired your stance and thus I am a bit disappointed that you seem unable to cast that same critical eye over the NHS.

I think that Universal Free Healthcare is a good idea – but that isn’t what we get with the NHS and it is completely deceitful to suggest that it is.

The NHS is in massive need of reform and while no-one in political power is willing to do anything other than continue on in the deluded belief that it is still fit-for-purpose it will continue to bleed taxpayers money while not achieving it’s sole purpose.

Don’t just engage in the same old tired left v right tactics, because to be frank the electorate is completely sick of them. I don’t care what you think the other guys is doing wrong, or isn’t doing at all. YOU tell me what YOU are going to do about the NHS….

Regards
EddieH

Tom, do you have any idea how petty and small-minded you are making yourself look?

Letters From A Tory wrote:

“Steady on, Tom. I suggest going by the main party policy if you want to find out what the Conservatives will do about the NHS. One MEP (yes, that’s MEP, not MP) saying that he wants to radically change things is totally irrelevant in the big scheme of things.”

That might hold some water, but for the fact that if a Labour MP ’stood out of line’, then plenty of Conservative bloggers would highlight his or her comments

Cameron sincerely loves NHS? No evidence in his earlier life, suggestion because however sad he had a severely disabled child this changed him, or it was politically convenient. We’ll never know, but his flip flops are all voter friendly but against his record. hence supports marriage but not single parents and a v dodgy record on gay rights.

he is doing well presenting an image, credit hannan for not presenting an image. If cameron’s serious kick Hannan down the list and tell him and Boris to pack in their jobs with the telegraph and give their constituents greater priority.

Won’t hold my breath………

PS: It should be “The Right gets” not “get”.
There seems to be an exposion of this sort of thing: “the government are”, “the Labour party are”, etc.

“exposion” should be “explosion” of course

OR MAYBE they agree with the first speech and disagree with the second?!?!

Do you now have to agree with everything someone says or nothing at all?!

And also A CORRECTION! ConHome carried the video at the weekend, thats where i found it!

Jim Carr “There seems to be an exposion of this sort of thing: “the government are”, “the Labour party are”, etc.”

[pedant]
I’m afraid you’re wrong.

Now I agree with you and use “the Government is…” and “the Conservative party is…”

But alas, we are in the minority. Standard English English usage – and the relevant reference books – all say use “the Government are…”, “the England team are…” etc, etc. Newspaper style books and subs all use it too.

In the US it is different and they stick to “the Government is…” etc.

I’m with the Americans on this but we are alas wrong for English English and I think Fowler even refers to an insistence on “the Government is…” as pedantic as well as wrong.
[/pedant]

I’m as pedantic as anyone, but I was always taught that consistency was as important as whether a noun was singular or plural. So by all means use “The Government are…” but stick to it and don’t switch to “is” or “was” later on.

It’s capitalisation which I find much more controversial. Don’t start me on that one…

Any suggestion that what ordinary Tories think is in any way congruent with official Tory policies (or when it comes the manifesto) is frankly risible. [Letters From A Tory @ 7 April 2009 9:48 am]

Therein lies the difference. The leadership is going one way but no way is it going to drag the lumpen Tory membership or even more the wider main support base with it.

What we don’t know of course is what will or will not happen should the Tories gain power. Manifestos and pre-election positioning have always been a very poor basis on which to go. [Though I guess Blair actually did roughly what he said he would and thus many of the astonished people I knew in the Labour party duly left.]

Some Tories are saying: ‘Don’t worry, once we get in it’ll be back to business as usual.’ Others are already shouting ‘betrayal’ at Cameron.

Meanwhile the voter is non the wiser: Are they potentially voting for the “nasty party” or are they voting for a new Conservatism?

Doesn’t IS refer to the corporate body – the party – and ARE to the collective humans that comprise it? Or did my Comprehensive education fail me again?

@ Simon Gardner

I’m a lifelong Tory and proud to be so. I agree with almost all of the current platform of the leadership (i differ on some social issues). Whilst subtly disagreeing on many aspects of policy and opinion most of my Tory friends are also in broad agreement with the leadership (i don’t myself believe it to be possible to completely agree with ANYONE!).

BUT you obviously know the Tory membership far better than myself, and have found some way of knowing what they all think that i’m not aware of. Far be it from me to question your so obviously ‘factually’ based observations!

“Cameron sincerely loves NHS? No evidence in his earlier life, suggestion because however sad he had a severely disabled child this changed him, or it was politically convenient.”

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2006/oct/09/uk.health (2006)

or

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4578440.stm (2006)

or

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2009/feb/25/david-cameron-on-ivan (2009)

So it would seem that he does have a record on the NHS, talking it UP, since he became leader…

Honestly, as someone who has to use the NHS (if we had a private system, I’d have had insurance before my MS diagnosis and not have to endure its self-appointed, unaccountable Gods Consultants) I find it endlessly amusing that when someone dares criticise what passes for ‘care’, the Left reacts as though you’d just eaten a baby. Seriously. It (should) provide a service, no more, no less.

The challenge for both left and right is to make that service accountable to the people it serves. Just as we moan in the UK about the NHS, rationing and NICE dragging its feet (tho’ not as much as trusts when it comes to implementing NICE guidance – look at the MS Document that came out in November 2003 and see how many Trusts meet those standards for their patients. Then weep!), arguing that doctors are unaccountable since they get paid regardless of the quality of care they provide, the same arguments exist in the US vis-a-vis the influence of Insurance, both Health and Professional Indemnity.

I concluded long, long ago that unless you are lucky enough to be able to pay a doctor yourself and not rely on the state or insurance, there’s no reason why they should do a good job. If you are paying them and they do a rubbish job, just don’t pay. That’s how it works with other services from plumbing to lawyers – the courts can sort it out. But not doctors. No, they are wee Gods who we must respect and heed and pay regardless of how poorly they treat us, how inadequate the ‘care’ they provide is.

The things I’ve seen, meeting other people with MS and using what passes for Neurological services in East Sussex/Brighton. You’d never believe me.